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Thread: Why the hatred for Cheness?

  1. #1
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    Why the hatred for Cheness?

    I have found here on SFI that there seems to be a lot of negetive comments and such about Cheness swords but on SBG many positive comments. As a newby I am confused, why the polarity of openions on this company? Any openions would be appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Lones View Post
    I have found here on SFI that there seems to be a lot of negetive comments and such about Cheness swords but on SBG many positive comments. As a newby I am confused, why the polarity of openions on this company? Any openions would be appreciated.
    having posted here for a while I dont see a lot of negative comments about Cheness' work here, so my question is why do you think there are?

    there is one thread so positive i bought some of Cheness' stuff

  3. #3
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    i don't think there is any hatred for cheness on here. there is some unbiased critique of some of the shortcuts cheness takes (which founder paul chen is very upfront about).

    in any case, meaning no offense to anyone, i think you will find there is a much higher knowledge base on sfi than sbg. different strokes of course, but there ya go.
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    well said Les

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    Quote Originally Posted by les yeich View Post
    i don't think there is any hatred for cheness on here. there is some unbiased critique of some of the shortcuts cheness takes (which founder paul chen is very upfront about).

    in any case, meaning no offense to anyone, i think you will find there is a much higher knowledge base on sfi than sbg. different strokes of course, but there ya go.
    Thank you, Hatred was probably a bad word choice. It is more of a subjective feeling really. But I do notice a little more negativity toward Cheness here than other sites and it very well maybe that members here are just more knowledgeable about katana than at SBG. Like I wrote though, I am a newby, and it was more just a question because I had noticed something I felt and was curious. I was wondering if it was because of the cheaply made koshirae or was the problem in the blades themselves? Cheers to all. Andrew

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    Actually , if you look deeper on SBG youll see a bit of Cheness criticism there too, I should know, i do a bit of it...

    The thing with Cheness is , at one time they were a decent alternative in teh under $300 price range SBG focuses on... but today they just arent competetive in the market with swords liekm teh Hanwei Raptor series and teh Dynasty Forge Musha series offereing better quality fir a better price.

  7. #7
    No hatred here, in fact I buy up some of their blades and remount them and sell them for a profit. They are nice little swords. I think the negativity stems from their poorly done tsukas.

    P.S. I own two in my collection, the first blade type offered by the company and a wakazashi.
    "Give any one species too much rope, and they'll F*#% it up."

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    ...
    Last edited by Aaron Justice; 08-01-2009 at 09:11 PM.
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    Exclamation Moderator's note

    Take SBG critique to SBG, not here. Discussion of the swords themselves is fine. Do not offer critique of other venues, nor offer it elsewhere regarding this venue. Cross linking is fine for informational cause but not illiciting opinion of other venues and other forumites at large.

    Thanks in advance for further considerations

    Glen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    Take SBG critique to SBG, not here. Discussion of the swords themselves is fine. Do not offer critique of other venues, nor offer it elsewhere regarding this venue. Cross linking is fine for informational cause but not illiciting opinion of other venues and other forumites at large.

    Thanks in advance for further considerations

    Glen
    Ah, fair enough.
    Every time I put on a suit for a wedding or other event, I feel like I'm wearing optimal clothing for an epic fight scene...

    Ronin Outpost

  11. #11
    I think what would be more productive than debating vague generalities, wherever they originate, is to raise the specific issues that others have mentioned and allow people to respond to those.

    Also, in light of the fact that QC issues change over time, it would be worthwhile to note date and model when raising concerns over issues.

    Just my humble opinion...
    R. V. H.

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    well said Ruben,

    That and Paul himself has posted here and has been very up front about some of the QC problems he had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    well said Ruben,

    That and Paul himself has posted here and has been very up front about some of the QC problems he had.
    PY hasn't posted here for three years, though...

    A recent Cheness review and a couple of posts from PY to bring us up-to-date could do wonders for Cheness' reputation on SFI (or completely bust it, in case things have gone nowhere, or south).

    BTW, I'm currently remounting a Cheness Tenchi bought in mid-to-late 2007, and the nakago is by far the worst I've ever seen, in every sense, and the tsuka was definitely built as bad as the ones we saw from 2005-2006.
    Last edited by Timo Qvintus; 08-02-2009 at 10:21 AM.
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    But Timo, you are a perfectionist ( LOL )

    bad to you is, well OK to most of us

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    But Timo, you are a perfectionist ( LOL )

    bad to you is, well OK to most of us
    To be honest, this one is bad by anybody's standards. Or at least it should be. Whoever shaped the nakago had either no idea what to do or made it with only one thing in mind and that was to create something that would wedge into a one-size-fits-all tsuka-core. Really, it's horrible. If it was mine, I'd take it to my father's machine works and spend a lot of quality time with a belt-grinder; that is, if I were able to remove the habaki first, which seems impossible.. To put this in context, it's worse (on all accounts except blade finish) than my $50 "Masahiro Bamboo" (too bad they don't make them like they used to).
    Last edited by Timo Qvintus; 08-02-2009 at 11:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    Take SBG critique to SBG, not here. Discussion of the swords themselves is fine. Do not offer critique of other venues, nor offer it elsewhere regarding this venue. Cross linking is fine for informational cause but not illiciting opinion of other venues and other forumites at large.

    Thanks in advance for further considerations

    Glen
    Hi Glen, sorry for that, it honestly was not my intention, just something I was wondering. I am still learning about modern production katana and am very interested in the subject. I listed the intilals rather than the name but I didn't realize there were any rules about chatting about third party sites, I am no lawyer nor salesman just an enthusiast. Didn't mean to offend anyone, but I enjoy the feed back on the subject, so many different ideas and points of view. Love the site! Cheers Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    But Timo, you are a perfectionist ( LOL )

    bad to you is, well OK to most of us
    I think is kind of the point. The people on SFI tend to be more knowledgable, and also hold a higher standard for swords. Just my observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyan G. View Post
    I think is kind of the point. The people on SFI tend to be more knowledgable, and also hold a higher standard for swords. Just my observation.
    I was poking a bit of fun at Timo Gyan, and yes, we do tend to be more knowledgeable and hold a Much higher standard.

    you have seen Timo's work right? it is marvelous by any one's standards

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    If you don't mind me asking; if you were to rate a blade, like the cheness kaze for example, by the old grade school standard or A for excellnt to F for fail, how would you rate the blade. Just the blade itself, not the fittings. Considering the other students in the class are other modern production blades like Hanwei, DF, Musashi, etc...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Lones View Post
    If you don't mind me asking; if you were to rate a blade, like the cheness kaze for example, by the old grade school standard or A for excellnt to F for fail, how would you rate the blade. Just the blade itself, not the fittings. Considering the other students in the class are other modern production blades like Hanwei, DF, Musashi, etc...
    Well, that would heavily depend on the criteria the blades are judged upon. Construction, durability, balance, heat treatment, edge retention, all gazillion points of general sugata, historical accuracy, the machi, nakago..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo Qvintus View Post
    Well, that would heavily depend on the criteria the blades are judged upon. Construction, durability, balance, heat treatment, edge retention, all gazillion points of general sugata, historical accuracy, the machi, nakago..
    Yes, I guess that would be true. So, if the various modern production katana are the 'stundents' then the various components of these blades would be like 'subjects' in a way and if that were the case then how would you judge or rate it overall or in various catagories if you prefer. While I am interested in the general 'look' of the sword the koshirae is not my interest here but rather just the blade itself. So, if we were to strip down the modern production katana and just considered the blade and the construction, durability/edge retention, toughness, balance and compared the Cheness Kaze to the DF Bushi and the Hanwei Shinto for example, how would you grade it? If you haven't experienced the shinto or feel it not to be in the same catagory of course feel free to substitue say the practical elite or any other you know or feel is in the same class. Of course I realize, for example that the DF Musashi class does not have a hamon and that the DF Daimiyo Class is very decent cut above. So that considered I will resubmit the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Lones View Post
    Yes, I guess that would be true. So, if the various modern production katana are the 'stundents' then the various components of these blades would be like 'subjects' in a way and if that were the case then how would you judge or rate it overall or in various catagories if you prefer. While I am interested in the general 'look' of the sword the koshirae is not my interest here but rather just the blade itself. So, if we were to strip down the modern production katana and just considered the blade and the construction, durability/edge retention, toughness, balance and compared the Cheness Kaze to the DF Bushi and the Hanwei Shinto for example, how would you grade it? If you haven't experienced the shinto or feel it not to be in the same catagory of course feel free to substitue say the practical elite or any other you know or feel is in the same class. Of course I realize, for example that the DF Musashi class does not have a hamon and that the DF Daimiyo Class is very decent cut above. So that considered I will resubmit the question.
    Also, if you prefer to grade by percentages so that 100% is top grade and 60% and below a failure with 60% to 70% being just acceptable then please feel free to use that system as well. Thank you

  23. #23
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    We should get Skip to attend this conversation, really, as he's seen and mounted a much wider variety of production blades than I. There are also a bunch of forumites who have cut with a lot of production swords, they could comment on the edge retention and durability.

    Have you read the sticky-topics on this forum? Lot of talk about various points of production-swords and their attributes.
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41155
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89862
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85927

    Rating the Cheness I'm currently working on, I'd give it pretty good grades regarding most aspects, but the nakago gets a very poor grade; anything and everything else that's passed through my hands has been at least attempted to make correctly but not this one. Kris Cutlery, Hanwei, Oni Forge, ZhiSwords, even the no-brand eBay swords dubbed "Masahiro Bamboo" walk all over it. I sincerely hope this is an exception, but I have reason to assume it is.
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    i think the blades themselves from cheness are actually quite formidable. the problem (and this is with *all* brands, not just cheness) is when- like timo's example above- something gets by qc as adequate, when it's arguably so for the consumer.

    there are little aspects of even the "better" production blades that really get to me. i personally am more a proponent of hanwei than any other production blades, but their often-times straight nakago bug the heck out of me. i'm also not a fan of the newer geometries they make.

    i like the huanuo stuff a lot, but nothing from them really wows me, and i've found a level of uniformity among their swords that makes them quite bland. they fit the bill for the average consumer to a t, though.

    kris cutlery is still my favorite place for beater swords, because i've owned several, abused several, and *never* had a problem with any purchase. they don't appeal to the average consumer, though.

    hell, to this day one of the best "bang for the buck" kats i've ever owned was the bwt from imperial weapons. some people didn't like it at all, though.

    i guess what i'm getting at, is the grading is just too subjective to do very well. the grade will vary from person to person, you know? plus, to grade on the blade alone is kind of pointless, because it eliminates the importance of the mount, which unless you're planning on a total remount (which is a lot more costly than the blade) is of prime importance. kris cutlery, for example, makes an exceptionally plain mount. thing is, it's rock solid and proportions are really pleasant. so for *me* to compare that to a really traditional mount that is second class, well, kc wins! but the majority of people are going to prefer those classical aesthetics over the functional aspect...
    les yeich (pronounced yike)

    helden wie wir sterben doch allein,
    einsam unerreicht werden wir sein.
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  25. #25
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    I'm a fan of KC's no-flash-and-all-function mentality as well. What really puts KC up there is showcasing exactly what Cheness (for example) lacks; consistently good products.
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

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