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Thread: Old or new

  1. #1

    Old or new

    A friend who will be on soon had me crop and reduce some pix of a Jian that came with a nice Gendaito. I do Nihonto not Chinese so were both looking to learn more about what he got.
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  2. #2

    few more

    few more shots
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  3. #3
    thanks stephen!!
    Last edited by Mike Sweeney; 08-24-2009 at 11:59 PM.

  4. #4
    (removed images)
    Last edited by Mike Sweeney; 08-24-2009 at 11:59 PM.

  5. #5



    Last edited by Mike Sweeney; 08-24-2009 at 11:56 PM. Reason: to big

  6. #6

    ??

    Mike

    dont know why you have to do that, all it does is slow down ppl from having a look. Im out of this, all the lookers and nobody knows? Not like the Nihonto to fourm huh.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    11,979
    Did you want fries and a milk shake with that?

    It can take some time for any that might be able to help just happen to pass by. As it hasn't even been one revolution of the big blue ball, I would give it a chance.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; Thanks for sizing the first batch, That does help many quite a bit.

  8. #8
    guys i dont understand....on my screen all the images are there immediatly???? Ill try attaching them smaller this time...
    my first post on this site gentleman i dont know how images work with how big they are....my appologizes

  9. #9
    i resized some images...i do have more images but just in case these are to large as well and wont load for you all...if these loaded correctly please let me know and I can post a couple more...again my appologies guys I didnt know my view is diferent than yours...I would really like to know if this sword is an old one as well as info on what the charachters and these stlyes of blades. Thanks everyone!
    Regards,
    Mike

  10. #10

    Supersize

    Extra Large Glen thanks,... Used to the NMB when after that many looks one would get at least i dont know but hang on so and so will let you know. Mike's here now so hell be looking forward to at least knowing what the Kanji says. Thanks

  11. #11
    It is difficult to tell from the pictures. It looks like it has some age, with what looks like wear on gilded brass fittings.

    This style of jian with the etching at the forte and mercury gilding was made between 1910-and 1940. Assuming it is genuine, it is likely from 1920-1935.

    As they say about Cylons, "there are many copies".
    Josh

  12. #12
    Thanks Josh

  13. #13
    thank you josh!! in hand it looks as if it has been around for a while..if you look at the area where the scabard locks in(slides in) inside that open area you can see lots of dust and other dirtlike age to it..would a fake have all of this? Also are there any specific photos i could take to help you get a btter feel if this is a good sword...and final question(i swear lol),what does the characters say on the blade? Thanks for the help and hining light on an area im new to!

  14. #14
    and that period seems right as thte gentleman I got thi Jian from I recieved a really really nice Nihonto WW2 smith made japanese sword.... here is a little info from the guy i got it from....
    Boxer Era Jian that was brought back by an intelligence officer in Japan in the Fall of '45.

    Also he was supposely given this sword and a really nice WW2 Japanese smithmade sword from the same japanese officer while on occupation duty..just thought id share

  15. #15
    Here's the end of the Jian. According to Net articles the peening makes this an older piece from before the turn of the Century. Later factory blades seem to have had a crew on rivet..is this true?? thanks you guys!!



  16. #16
    Peened ends like that can be found at any time. It is more that it works the other way. A nut on the end indicates post 19th c. The Ricasso, etching, and gilding all indicate post 19th c. and are consistant with the twenties and thirties.
    Josh

  17. #17
    Josh,Thank you.i appreciate you clearing that up for me...any idea on the characters on the blade...and who would have used this type of sword...i just couldnt imagine this blade being used in battle...but im probally wrong

  18. #18
    The characters on the blade are "Ch'ing Qiang Jian"
    which means 'Green Steel Sword'.

    Is it a little copper on the right side of the blade's tip? If it is, than the sword is likely chrome-plated at the same manner like they do with wushu practice swords nowadays.

  19. #19
    Jian like that were status symbols more than weapons. In the countryside, jian with iron guards were still being used as weapons, but ones like yours were for show. Some were chrome plated as mentioned, but this was often over good steel.

    Here is an example of a probably early 20th c. village jian. (http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...1E58991011.jpg)

    The Republican jian like yours are often on the heavy side and quite long, in the range of 36 inches or more overall.

    If you tap the pommel and the blade has a tight vibration, it is likely a good steel hand forged blade. If the vibration is loose, flik the tip. Good machine made blades or hand forged with a different temper, ring when you tap the tip. Ringing is quite common on good blades of the period but rare on earlier blades. These tests are subjective and do not rule anything out one way or another. If the blade is just floppy it is purely tourist stuff.
    Josh

  20. #20
    Josh,thank you so much..i am heading back from work now and will have to tell you what i find out about these tests when i get home. Really excited to see!!

  21. #21
    Greetings Josh...just got in and tapd the pommel and it does make a ring more like a bell ring. I then tapd the tip and it doesnt really make a loud ring but it is noticeable(and it vibrates the blade a little).
    The blade doesnt "bounce" that much but it does bounce after flicking tip.(Dont worry i did wipe away any finger marks i left behind)

  22. #22
    I don't know enough about metallurgy to understand the differences between tempers, but I think a ringing vibration when you tap the pommel is a good sign. It means that the smith at least took the time to temper the blade and align the handle in such a way that it maintains its natural harmonics. If you imagine a string vibrating with several oscillations along its length, there are places where the vibration is minimal, and places where the vibration is maximal. A well-tuned blade should ring well when held by the brass ferule behind the guard. The node of minimal vibration should be there so that during handling minimal vibration is sent into the hand.

    Once again this is not a definitive test, but it can add a piece of useful information.
    Josh

  23. #23
    Sorry it took me a while to respond... Thank you Josh for the information on this sword.Means alot

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