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Thread: Real antuiqe or "new" fake?

  1. #1
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    Real antuiqe or "new" fake?

    Hi!
    In a couple of week's now I have become very interesd in old sword's and the history/usage behind them.
    I have been talking with a seller, who are selling a copule of sword's he bought from a swedish collector for some years ago. He claims he dosent have the interessed in them no more and that they are just laing in boxes around in the house or somthing like that.
    I got a couple of pictures I can show to you expert's out there:







    I was told to get some better pictures later today.
    Can somone tell me if this is a real antiuqe, and hopefully tell med about the value of it(PM me about the value, since it is not allowed to talk about prices I suspect).
    Thanks for the help, any questions?
    Dont blame my english, it is supposed to bee bad
    From Norway here

  2. #2
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    I did'nt get any other pictures of the "Buddha Sword" yet that I am really interessed in.
    But I got some of another sword he got for sale, dont really like the look of it but what do you guys think?
    And please, be kind and help me as fast as possible. The seller are in a little of a hurry so I have to bee fast to

    Dont blame my english, it is supposed to bee bad
    From Norway here

  3. #3
    The characters in the jian are "Yi Tian Jian" which means "heaven sword" It is the name of one of the swords of the Chinese novell "Heaven's sword and Dragon Sabre" This novell was made popular by many Chinese tv series and movies, including Jet Li's 'Kung fu Cult master.

    So I'm almost sure it is a movie sword.

  4. #4

    Not likely, nope.

    Well, I'm leaning towards this judgement... #1. the jian is repro, #2. the dao is repro (China-katana) and #3. the mace looks as if it very well could be, too. I'd have to examine the mace up close but if all three pieces come from the same source, it's guilt by association. No? In other words, be careful! Now, are these pieces entirely worthless? Not really, at least not as collectibles (if the price is right. By "right" I mean cheap) but cetainly not to be confused with authentic, antique Chinese arms. That is just my opinion.

    Ciao, Jon
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 08-25-2009 at 07:20 PM.
    "A wise person aspires the study of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy teacher, an unlucky person finds yet another student... in the guise of a genuine Master. Sadly, a fool cannot tell the difference either way." Anecdotes of The Unknown Swordsman

  5. #5
    Yeah the jian and dao look post Republican. I have seen a few jian like that with some age, so I think they were not necesarily made yesterday and as mentioned have a little value. They are usually overweight for practice, but would look nice on the wall. Call them vintage reproductions of antiqes.
    Josh

  6. #6
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    For whatever its worth, I have seen the same exact jian and mace for sale on ebay some time ago from mainland Chinese auction sources.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the information guy's, I am fearly new to sword's but I have decided to collect some money over time and buy my self a real sword, hopefully a Katana.
    I have not heard from the seller lately either, and I also think he claimed a bit to much money for it(400$) since it most likely is a repro.
    But agin, thanks!
    Dont blame my english, it is supposed to bee bad
    From Norway here

  8. #8
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    Well today I got some new pic's from the seller, but I since you guy's earlier said that it most likely was a newer sword you want change you'r minds now or





    What about the value when he ask's for 400$?
    Dont blame my english, it is supposed to bee bad
    From Norway here

  9. #9
    It is a modern reproduction.
    Josh

  10. #10

    Lightbulb Exactly why are you collecting this sword?

    Quote Originally Posted by josh stout View Post
    It is a modern reproduction.
    Josh
    Hi E. Lovbak,

    I am on-board with Josh. Also, I agree with Neil, as I too, have seen this sword on eBay (and legions of them quite similar, each with the same kind of non-traditional fittings) and it has all of the tell-tale signs of most of the contemporary, fake "antique" Chinese jian swords turning up in the last ten years. Josh was being kind by dating these pieces a post-Republican era. Obviously, just about everything made in the 20/21st century is post-Republican era. The primary question is, "Just how post is it?" How honestly presented is this sword, in truth? I am 50 years old and am certain I've got a few years on this jian. Probably around 35-45 years? The fittings are neither classic nor the design motif historically realistic (or even very appropriate). I would label it as a late twentieth century, "tourist sword". It could be older than the Republic of Macedonia but I sincerely suspect that it may not be. Not garbage, not a genuine antique, not a historically accurate replica. What is it, then? Like Josh said., "vintage reproductions of antiques". That is the most optimistic perspective on this jian. The most pessimistic perspective would be... that it is tip-heavy, poorly forged and only 5 to 10 years old. Not a real antique, not good for forms practice and no good for cutting tougher targets, like tatami and bamboo. Basically a wall-hanger or a curiosity?

    Bottom line is, do you really, really like it or not? Exactly why are you considering collecting this sword? For the appearance of it? Perhaps for cutting targets? Maybe for forms practice? The Buddha? The shark-skin? Because you can only currently afford about $400.00, or so, on an "antique" Chinese sword? Now, four hundred bucks is not sooooo much money to invest in a collectible, yet, keep in mind that an authentic antique jian with scabbard, would cost well over $2000.00 in today's market. If you wouldn't regret it, were you to find out that this sword was made 10-12 years ago, go for it. If you want a good investment, buy gold instead. If you want a good four hundred dollar sword (one you could actually practice cutting with, minus the fear that it might break) check out Cold Steel's latest offering. It was manufactured by Fred Chen's people for CS but it is of Huanuo Sword Arts production. No smoke and mirrors, just a really good forge-folded, clothed in shark-skin sword for the money. So, without holding the above jian with my own two hands, I honestly can't say just how good the steel is, or is not. You can count on the Cold Steel jian's quality, truthfully represented as a modern reproduction. KOA has them for the sweet price of $399.95. That's just half the cold Steel MSRP!!! Scabbard clothed in ray-skin, a good cutting sword, great for forms practice, etc... a winner. I am going to buy one, eventually. I have had fantastic experiences with all four of the Huanuo Sword Arts Chinese cutting swords I already own. If I had $2000.00-3000.00 in pocket? I'd get a real antique jian (although they are very, very scarce). Think it over and "look before you leap".

    Again, it's just my 2 cents worth, Jon

    This is the link for the Jade Lion Gim: http://www.kultofathena.com/product~...e+Lion+Gim.htm
    For the mono-steel Carp Gim (priced $249.95), check this link: http://www.kultofathena.com/product~...+Gim+Sword.htm
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 08-30-2009 at 10:33 PM.
    "A wise person aspires the study of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy teacher, an unlucky person finds yet another student... in the guise of a genuine Master. Sadly, a fool cannot tell the difference either way." Anecdotes of The Unknown Swordsman

  11. #11

    The name on the jian say enough

    Like I said before, the Characters on the jian "Yi Tian Jian' is the name of the sword of a Chinese novell, written in the 60's and made popular by tv-series and movies from the mid 70's.

    It's like when somebody offers you an "antique" middle age sword called 'Excalibur'

  12. #12
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    Thank's agin for some serious and good comment's
    I am gonna save my money from buying this sword, and save for a couple of months and look for other swords, swords that can be used for cutting and are easy to handle. So then I think that an antuiqe Jian cant bee a good investment for my self because of that they are less ressistand because of the age to brake appart during cutting or so.
    So I guess that a modern area Katana are a better buy for my usage and for a 500-1000$ I think I can get a nice sworrd for my use.
    Dont blame my english, it is supposed to bee bad
    From Norway here

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh stout View Post
    It is a modern reproduction.
    Josh
    Sometime I am amazed at stuff people think are real Chinese swords!

    Look at this "dealer" (Hans-Peter Benz) -
    http://www.jianjue.de/index-Dateien/Page1226.htm
    Every one one is a modern fake, we can find these swords all over Beijing!
    Last edited by Wu Ming; 09-25-2009 at 01:48 AM.

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