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Thread: Ming-Qing Dinasty Sword

  1. #1

    Ming-Qing Dinasty Sword

    Hello,
    I have found a sword in a store of Beijing city. The seller man doesn't know very well what dynasty is that sword. He says Ming or Qing Dinasty. I have attached some photos. Does anybody know how old is it?
    He says that it is a real sword. He can crash it against other swords or metals and it has no damage at its sharp edge, really amazing! Does it mean that it is not a feak or it is not sure? How can I know it?
    He wants around 100000 dollars. Is it a good price for a real Ming or Dynasty sword?
    Thanks so much!
    Emilio
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  2. #2
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    Hi there,

    I don't know who here has that amount of money to spend on a sword, but anyways this is certainly NOT worth that amount of money.
    Strange that a seller who wants 100,000 USD does not even know what the sword is for sure.


    Stay clear!

  3. #3
    Im very sorry. I wanted to say 100.000 RMB (chinese coin) around 10.000 USD.
    Thanks,
    Emilio


    Quote Originally Posted by william.m View Post
    Hi there,

    I don't know who here has that amount of money to spend on a sword, but anyways this is certainly NOT worth that amount of money.
    Strange that a seller who wants 100,000 USD does not even know what the sword is for sure.


    Stay clear!

  4. #4
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    It is a nice sword and looks to be the real deal, although the scabbard looks a bit suspect considering the condition of the blade itself.
    10,000 USD is still too much for this sword. I would perhaps pay 700 USD

    You should tell the seller to stop crashing the sword around...

  5. #5
    I think that if a store owner would bash a sword into other swords, none of those swords would be worth much money.

  6. #6
    Thanks William for your answer. He sais that the scabbard and the handle are re-made. The only ancient is the blade. What makes me think that it is a real sword is that I have offered 8.000 USD to prove him, and it is impossible, he wants 100.000 RMB, no one dollar less.

    I have to say that 700 USD is in my opinion a very low price. Imagine that it is real. I cannot believe that a Ming Dynasty sword which is for example 300 years old and with such good iron as it seems to have is only that price. Anycase I have no idea about the normal prices of ancient swords, so thank you so much for your advice!

    Emilio.

  7. #7
    Hi Eirik,
    The swords he uses to crash against the old one are cheap-modern swords. Anycase he crash it against everything: swords, screws, bricolage metal pieces, etc. I already told him not to do it, but he is very sure. He says that he bought the sword 10 years ago and have been doing that since then. It has no damage at its sharp, believe me.

  8. #8
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    700 USD is a very fair price for this sword. 300 years old is not that old if you are a collector of antique swords. I have a few swords that are 500 years old, so its not a big deal.

    Anyways the sword seller sounds like a joke, an unbeliveable price on the sword and yet treats it like junk.

    If you think his price is reasonable then please contact me via PM as I have a number of swords I would love to sell you for "reasonable" prices....

  9. #9

    Thumbs down ... 10 Grand is a lot of money.

    Quote Originally Posted by william.m View Post
    700 USD is a very fair price for this sword. 300 years old is not that old if you are a collector of antique swords. I have a few swords that are 500 years old, so its not a big deal.
    Greetings Emilio,

    William is absolutely correct, this sword is a composite piece (being a fusion of antique blade and modern fittings) and could never, realistically, command such a high price-tag. If it were a Japanese sword, it wouldn't even get papered, as it is altered and un-authentic because of this fact. I know... "Who cares, since it's not a Japanese sword?" True enough, but you can see how a complete package is much more desirable and so much, more highly prized.

    I think 10 thousand US dollars is far too much for this blade. I'm thinking it's 3 or 4 times more than it should be. Remember, you are talking about 10,000 US dollars, in a shop in China and that buys a lots of rice!!! True, there are some types of steel that would demand a higher cost, like twist-core but not this much of a price-hike. It does look like a fine old blade. Even so, this guy is delusional! First, it is extremely difficult to determine if it is actually a late-Ming or early-Qing (yanmaodao?) blade, in question. Second, paying such an over-inflated price for a composite piece is very unwise, given it's probable value. I mean no offense, Sir, but this guy is trying to con you. I'm certainly no expert, yet this sounds waaaaay over-the-top, for such a dao. Perhaps you might ask Scott Rodell, Philip Tom , Peter Dekker or Josh Stout? Those guys are knowledgeable, reliable and honest. Try uploading these photos on the GRTC forum, for some valuable feedback. This is the link: http://forum.grtc.org/viewforum.php?f=15

    Unless you are a millionaire... 10 Grand is a lot of money. I would, personally, opt for another sword. Dealers love to throw the "Ming" word around, since they can double or triple the price with such a claim. If you are in love with this blade, wait a few months and offer him $3000.00 or $4000.00. It's still probably more that it is worth, unless it is twist-core steel and truly, a genuine Ming example. Now, even if it really is... I still wouldn't go over 4 Grand. Since, after all, it is still a composite and needs a good polish (and this will be an additional investment). Can you get another appraisal on this sword (locally)? It would be worth a second opinion. But hey, what do I know? I am not a millionaire and I am currently unemployed. This probably colors my view? Yep.

    I wouldn't go as far a William does, in placing it's value so low as $700.00. Also, for an antique Chinese sword, 300 years is a long time, despite to age of the nation. Sadly, most of the swords of the vast territory of China, have been hidden, appropriated or destroyed. Thanks to the Manchus, Japanese and Maoists... many treasures have been lost forever. The ratio of the size/population of this nation, to the existing and available-for-sale swords remaining, is quite extreme. That being said, I would advise you to hold on to your $10,000.00 and buy from a less insane sword dealer.

    In-a-nutshell... this sword might be worth 1/3 of what it is being priced at? Now, I said, "might be", as without a close examination, it's all really empty conjecture. Even so, you can find better deals than this one, my friend. Besides, even an expert swordsman, with decades of training, can accidentally damage an antique blade. Everyone has a day like that, and eventually accidents happen. Why brazenly risk such a possibility? Obviously, it's a sales pitch. It's most likely, just a matter of time before this guy makes that foolish mistake, regardless of how soft the fake sword's steel is. Is someone so careless, qualified to vouch for the worth and quality of this blade? I'm having my doubts.

    FYI, Seven Stars Trading Company has two nice antique Qing Dynasty daos available for much, much less $$$ (with original fittings). Check out this link: http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/html/swords/

    Good luck with your quest, Jon
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 10-17-2009 at 10:01 PM.
    "A wise person aspires the study of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy teacher, an unlucky person finds yet another student... in the guise of a genuine Master. Sadly, a fool cannot tell the difference either way." Anecdotes of The Unknown Swordsman

  10. #10
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    Great reply Jon! The reason my price was conservative is because as the fittings are cobbled together and the blade rusty, it will need a considerable amount of work done to it.

    This seller on ebay used to have quite a few nice swords. Doesnt seem to have anything up at the moment though.. http://shop.ebay.com/rrcervantes/m.h...1&_from=&_ipg=

  11. #11
    Hello William and Jon,
    Thanks for your advices and your excelent information. Now I dont care as much as before how old is that sword because it seems not difficult to find such ancient swords.
    But I still focus my attemtion at the quality of its iron. Of course that today there are modern methods to make better iron. But in my opinion it has not merit. However, long ago I think it was necessary too much work to do such good sword, so it makes much deeper what I feel when I have in my hands a good ancient sword.
    Of course that I dond like to crash swords. I would never risk it damaging. That sword I already saw that man do it, so it is not necessary do it more times. The question is how to realize how good is the iron if you must not crash the sword against anything? It is a problem.

    Emilio.

  12. #12
    Hi Emilio,

    One way the quality of the steel is tested is when it is being ground down against a metal grinder and one sees the sparks that shoots out. The more the higher high carbon steel present. This test is done usually before the sword is shaped or when an old blade needs reshaping or polishing.

    If the blade is not wobbly or doesn't bend easily then the steel is probably very good.

    I have one dao I got from Scott Roddell (Seven Stars Trading Co., USA). It appears to be 100% original and possibly late-Ming or early Qing dynasty. I bought this for less than half of what the guy is trying to sell you what appears to be an old blade with new scabbard and parts.

    I also got a dao blade from Peter Dekker (Mandarin Mansion, the Netherlands), probably from the late Ming dynasty and combined it with old fittings with newer replacement scabbard and handle. With the polish it was less than half of what this guy wants.

    So with patience deals can be found!
    Last edited by T.Lee; 12-22-2009 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Added text.

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