Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: Swords for Our Canadian Members to Look Out For!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691

    Swords for Our Canadian Members to Look Out For!

    I have been through the Wilkinson Indexes of the Pattern Rub books from the 1880's to 1939 looking for ref to a certain sword but got side tracked at the same time and noted the following Canadian Military swords that our collector friends in Canada may have, know where they are, or simply to watch out for.
    Remember that Blade Rubs were made for Swords ONLY if they were NON STANDARD ETCH such as presentation, name etc.

    Royal Military College of Canada –Prize sword 1881

    Royal Artillery College Canada - 1900 & 1908 - Prize for Conduct, Gentleman Cadet Thomas Victor Anderson 1900

    Royal Artillery College Canada - 1903 - Prize for Drill & Exercise, Gentleman Cadet David Keithock Edger 1902

    Victoria Rifles Canada - RJ Inglis Montreal and Winnipeg 1904

    2 Canadian Samples - RJ Inglis Montreal and Winnipeg March 13 1909.

    Royal Canadian Rifles - 1910

    Canadian Royal Engineers -1911
    Grenadier Guard 1911 RJ Inglis Montreal and Winnipeg

    Canadian Sample Cavalry Dec 1912 - (Ord No 53) - RJ Inglis Montreal and Winnipeg

    “Common” (meaning Trade) Claymore -1913- RJ Inglis Montreal and Winnipeg.
    Sample Canada Infantry -Nov 1913- RJ Inglis Montreal and Winnipeg
    Canadian Coldstream Guards (My Note: Governor General’s Foot Guards) 1913 - for Meyer and Mortimer, London.

    Presentation General Officer -Presented to Major General Sir Archibald Cameron MacDonnell, May 1919 by the Officers of the 1st Canadian Division, 'The Older Patch'.

    Canadian Erin Guard - June 1934 - Battles by Hand (Ord No 5365)- William Scully, Montreal.Note: Wilkinsons supplied Scully well into the 1970’s and probably later.

    Good Hunting!
    Robert

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    3,062

    Fascinating

    Sounds fascinating, I did not know Inglis purchased Wilkinson swords ( yet to add an Inglis to my collection). I do not know where any of them are but you have me looking! Maybe still held by family or a museum, but if lucky, kicking around on a table at a militaria show. The Etobicoke show in March is coming up, good time to start.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sidmouth, in the South-West of the UK
    Posts
    2,290
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilkinson-Latham View Post
    I have been through the Wilkinson Indexes of the Pattern Rub books from the 1880's to 1939 looking for ref to a certain sword but got side tracked at the same time and noted the following Canadian Military swords that our collector friends in Canada may have, know where they are, or simply to watch out for.
    Remember that Blade Rubs were made for Swords ONLY if they were NON STANDARD ETCH such as presentation, name etc.
    ...
    Canadian Coldstream Guards (My Note: Governor General’s Foot Guards) 1913 - for Meyer and Mortimer, London.
    Excellent timing, Robert! Just before Christmas I found this sword, which has good connections both to the GGFG and the 2nd Canadian Contingent in the Great War. I have a query in with the Canadian National Archive which will hopefully bear fruit when the academics return to their desks in the New Year!

    John
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    John
    I have looked again at the entry and it reads as follows:

    Canadian Coldstream Guards 1913. 1/- each for Meyer and Mortimer

    suggesting that there was more than 1.

    The cost of 1/- suggests an inscription the length that your sword has. The 1/- was a Wilkinson 'internal' piece work cost and NOT what was charged to the Customer.
    It suggests, perhaps, that maybe more than one officer handed his sword to Meyer and Mortimer to have the fact that they were now with the 20th Battalion, 2nd Canadian Contingent etched on the blade.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Here is another one!

    Canadian Horse Artillery - Badge etched on blade - 3/6 ---1920

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sidmouth, in the South-West of the UK
    Posts
    2,290
    John
    I have looked again at the entry and it reads as follows:

    Canadian Coldstream Guards 1913. 1/- each for Meyer and Mortimer

    suggesting that there was more than 1.

    The cost of 1/- suggests an inscription the length that your sword has. The 1/- was a Wilkinson 'internal' piece work cost and NOT what was charged to the Customer.
    It suggests, perhaps, that maybe more than one officer handed his sword to Meyer and Mortimer to have the fact that they were now with the 20th Battalion, 2nd Canadian Contingent etched on the blade.[/QUOTE]

    Interesting, Robert - I suspect this may have happened with other family blades too, particularly when war broke out in 1914 and there was a consequent rush of young officers to join up, all needing swords!

    John
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 01-11-2010 at 01:51 AM.
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Canadian Erin Guard - June 1934 - Battles by Hand (Ord No 5365)- William Scully, Montreal.

    Error in reading the pencil title of this blade rub. It should be
    Grenadier Guards of Canada

    Here is the blade rub


    The word CANADA appears under the Grenadier Guard's grenade badge nearest to the tang. There are also 10 First World War Battle Honours as well as South Africa 1899-1900.

    (1912, when the First Regiment became 1st Regiment, The Grenadier Guards of Canada, and in April 1914 took possession of the new armoury and changed its name again to 1st Regiment Canadian Grenadier Guards. It remained the First Regiment (although junior as a regiment of Foot Guards to the Governor General's Foot Guards, raised in 1872)
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 01-11-2010 at 01:52 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    789
    Great stuff Robert!

    I will certainly be keeping my eyes peeled!

    Rob
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    yet another
    Canadian Engineers 1909 - 1 Best & 1 Trade

    Robert

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    15

    Lightbulb

    The Macdonell sword is in collection of the Royal Military College of Canada virtual museum (photo attached). http://ganguy.jalbum.net/Diaries%20and%20Memorabilia/ Ross Mackenzie, the RMC museum curator probably would be interested in the rubbings and other ex-cadet swords for the collection.

    I recognize several of the names from Preston's 'Canada's RMC: A History of the Royal Military College of Canada'. I write for e-veritas, the alumni journal of the Canadian military college and would love to publish the sword pattern rubbings associated with the ex-cadets.

    Major General Sir Archibald Cameron Macdonnell K.C.B., C.M.G., D.S.O., LL.D. graduated witha diploma with honours in 1886 from the Royal Military College of Canada. He stood fourth in his class. He was an athlete who competed in rugby football and cricket. He accepted an extra commission in the Royal Artillery in 1886 but resigned it almost immediately when his father failed in business. He was commissioned in the new Mounted Infantry unit in Manitoba and then transferred to the Royal North-West Mounted Police in which he served for 20 years. He served as the commander of the 1st division under Canada Corps Commander Sir Arthur Currie in Germany during WWI. He was known as 'Fighting Mac' or 'Batty Mac'. He was mentioned in despatches several times. He was awarded a Presentation sword on May 1919 by the Officers of the 1st Canadian Division, 'The Older Patch'. He served as Commandant of the RMC from 1919-25. His family coat of arms was carved into the Currie Building at RMC (photo attached). His dog 'wag' and his old war house 'Casey' are buried on the college grounds (photos of gravestones attached).

    Major General Thomas Victor Anderson D.S.O. (1881-1968) graduated from the Royal Military College of Canada in 1900. He served as Cadet Sergeant Major at RMC in 1900. He was awarded Royal Artillery College Canada - 1900 & 1908 - Prize for Conduct. He served with the 14th PWOR. He was an instructor in civil engineering at RMC 1902-6. He served with the Royal Canadian Engineers in 1905. He was wounded in 1917. He became commandant of the Canadian Engineers Training Center in England in 1917. He was the GSO (general Services Officer) at Royal Military College of Canada in 1921. He was the DMT (Director Military Training) at RMC in 1925. He served as inspector-general central Canada in 1946. During WWII, he was appointed Chief of the General Staff.

    Captain David Keithock Edgar, D.S.O graduated from the Royal Military College of Canada in 1902. He served as Battalion Sergeant Major at RMC 1901-2. He was awarded the Royal Artillery College Canada - 1903 - Prize for Drill & Exercise. As a Captain with the Royal Engineers he was made a Companion of the Distinguished Service Order (London Gazette 17 Sept 1917. He was awarded a patent for improvements to portable buildings (235713) and for storing & supplying heated water
    (235713) in 1925.
    http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../9650/page.pdf
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by Victoria Edwards; 12-13-2011 at 03:13 PM. Reason: attachment error

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Victoria
    Many thanks for the background and history.

    Somewhere I have the original drawing for this sword's blade etch. It is beautifully drawn out on thick paper.
    I'll have a look over the holidays and photograph and post it.
    Robert

    Ref Your:
    I write for e-veritas, the alumni journal of the Canadian military college and would love to publish the sword pattern rubbings associated with the ex-cadets.

    I will look through the books as well and see what I can find and send them to you. Yo are at liberty to use them with with the usual acknowledgement
    Robert
    PS Might take some time with holidays, my son, wife and two toddlers descending on us from Toronto this xmas!!!!!
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 12-13-2011 at 11:28 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    I have checked my Index and have rubs of the following:

    Macdonnall May 1919
    Anderson 1903
    and
    Edgar 1902.

    I will sort them out and scan them and send them over.
    Victoria please PM me with your email address.
    PS I will of course post them here as well)
    Robert

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    15
    I provided a bio on another of the RMC ex-cadets whose sword rubbing Robert Wilkinson-Lathan has. The Lesslies remain a prominent military family in Canada and would be an interesting family to profile in e-veritas (alumni journal).

    Gentleman Cadet William Breck Lesslie entered Royal Military College of Canada (RMC), (#172) in September 1884. He served as the Battalion Sergeant Major (BSM) in 1887-8. He graduated from RMC in 1888. He accepted a commission in the Royal Engineers. He was promoted 2nd Lieutenant 31 Oct 1881. He was promoted to Lieutenant on 28th July 1891. As a Lieutenant, he was appointed to the department of military engineering. He served as a professor of military engineering at RMC from 1895-9. He served as GOC Infantry Brigade and Chief Engineer 22/06/1915. He served as a Lieutenant Colonel with the 1st Brigade during the First World War, 1914-1918 and was mentioned in Despatches on 8 March 1918. He was created Companion of the Order of St. Michael and St. George in connection with the Dardanelles operations. He was O.M.C to General Birdwood in Egypt. He was recommended for Brevet Colonel on 26 September 1917. Brigadier-General William Breck Lesslie, C.B., C.M.G. (1868-1942) served as OC of the 1st Australian Brigade in France. He married Edith Lucy Lesslie (nee Blyth). Their son Maj William Harold Blyth Lesslie died during WWII in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia 23/03/1941.
    Last edited by Victoria Edwards; 12-15-2011 at 08:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Here are some more blade rubs for Royal Military College Canada.
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    And the Macdonell presentation sword.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 12-15-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    I apologies for 'sectioning' the rub but to get the detail it is the only way.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    15

    Thumbs up A Canadian Sword Pattern to look out for... Sir William Dillon Otter (1843-1929)

    A Canadian Sword Pattern to look out for...

    Although Sir William Dillon Otter (1843-1929) was not a cadet at the Royal Military College of Canada, he is remembered in the College`s Otter Squadron, which is composed of the University Training Program Non-Commissioned Members. I would love to have the pattern/rubbing for the RMC museum, since it would be a good complement to Otter`s sword, which is prominently displayed at RMC. (photo attached)

    A veteran of the Battle of Ridgeway in 1866 and a part-time soldier, Otter joined the permanent force in 1883. He commanded the Battleford column in the North-West Campaign of 1885 and was the first commanding officer of the Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry in 1893. In 1899 Otter was the obvious choice to lead the first Canadian contingent in the South African War. His austere professionalism was unpopular with subordinates but contributed to Canadian prestige. In 1908 he was the first Canadian-born chief of the general staff and was inspector general of the Canadian Militia 1910-12, when he retired. He commanded Internment operations during WWI. Otter was knighted in 1913 and in 1922 became the second Canadian soldier, after Sir Arthur Currie, to reach the rank of general. (Bio from Canadian Encyclopedia online)
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Victoria Edwards; 12-15-2011 at 08:53 AM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    15

    Thumbs up Brigadier-General Sir Godfrey Rhodes CB, CBE, DSO (1886-1971)

    Robert Wilkinson-Latham has the presentation sword rub of Brigadier-General Sir Godfrey Rhodes CB, CBE, DSO (1886-1971). If the sword isn`t already in the RMC museum or Canadian War Museum collection, it may belong there.

    Officer Cadet Godfrey Dean Rhodes was first in his class, served as College Battalion Sergeant-Major in 1906–07 and won the Sword of Honour on graduation from the Royal Military College of Canada in 1907. He accepted a commission with the Royal Engineers. He was promoted Second Lieutenant in the Corps of Royal Engineers on 27 June 1907. He married Lady Reith and had a son and daughter. As a Major with the Royal Engineers he was an associate civil engineer in Rhodes, Macpherson Fox Smith (Cape Town). He served with the British Army in Canada, Turkey, Bulgaria, Kenya, Uganda, Persia-Iraq and India. He was mentioned in despatches three times. Brigadier-General (Ret`d) Sir Godfrey Rhodes was appointed General Manager, Kenya and Uganda Railways and Harbours, with effect from 30th October, 1934 until he was seconded to military duty in 1941. He was knighted on 1 Jan 1934. Brigadier-General Sir Godfrey Rhodes CB, CBE, DSO (1886-1971) served as British Director of Transportation and Deputy Quartermaster General, head of the Anglo-Iranian-Soviet Transportation Board in 1942.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria Edwards View Post
    A Canadian Sword Pattern to look out for...

    Although Sir William Dillon Otter (1843-1929) was not a cadet at the Royal Military College of Canada, he is remembered in the College`s Otter Squadron, which is composed of the University Training Program Non-Commissioned Members. I would love to have the pattern/rubbing for the RMC museum, since it would be a good complement to Otter`s sword, which is prominently displayed at RMC. (photo attached)

    A veteran of the Battle of Ridgeway in 1866 and a part-time soldier, Otter joined the permanent force in 1883. He commanded the Battleford column in the North-West Campaign of 1885 and was the first commanding officer of the Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry in 1893. In 1899 Otter was the obvious choice to lead the first Canadian contingent in the South African War. His austere professionalism was unpopular with subordinates but contributed to Canadian prestige. In 1908 he was the first Canadian-born chief of the general staff and was inspector general of the Canadian Militia 1910-12, when he retired. He commanded Internment operations during WWI. Otter was knighted in 1913 and in 1922 became the second Canadian soldier, after Sir Arthur Currie, to reach the rank of general. (Bio from Canadian Encyclopedia online)
    Regretfully no listing for Otter in the blade rubbings so perhaps he didn't buy or own a Wilkinson sword but one from another maker.

    NOTE
    One must remember that the Blade Rubbings with names are 99% Presentation Swords. If the officer bought his own sword, there would probably in most cases be No Blade rub in the Named Index.
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 12-18-2011 at 12:37 AM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Here is the Wilkinson Master Etching Plate for the RMC Canada prize swords.
    I have 'edited' off the master plate all the other bits and pieces, tailors names etc which have no connection with the RMC Canada swords.
    Robert

    NOTE the different ranks of UO that could be awarded the swords and depending on the winner, those not applicable would be cut out from the pull from the etch plate.

    The ranks were:
    Corporal- SUO (Senior Under Officer) JUO (Junior Under Officer.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 12-16-2011 at 01:50 AM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    15

    Thumbs up

    Ross McKenzie (RMC museum curator) checked the museum databases (both electronic and the good, old always, reliable card index) and we do not have the swords of either #171 Lesslie or #665 Rhodes. The museum has the following 'Swords of Honour" -#913 MacDonald, #2265 Anderson, #802 Gordon, #188 Kerr, #292 Farley, #1297 Adami, #102 Von Iffland, #45 Taylor, and #1514 Richardson. He suspects there are a few more in the collection -hiding under the generic entry 'sword'.


    He advises that the presentation sword given to Maj-Gen. Sir Archie Macdonell is one of the gems of the RMC collection.

    Some years ago- when Wilkinson Sword was still in business- Ross McKenzie had an intern-student send off a request for information. While the sword itself tells most of the story, it would have been interesting to see the Wilkinson records on who actually ordered it and when, etc. Unfortunately the records covering the period that the sword was ordered were missing. He writes `Given that you obtained our images from Mr. Robert Wilkinson Latham -it would appear that Wilkinson keep a copy of our inquiry on file. Can't blame them- it's a beautiful piece of work.`

    According to Preston's History of RMC, the first sword of honour was awarded in 1880 to H.W. Keefer (1859-1887), a civil engineer who was killed by falling from the Vaudreil bridge.

    I was interested to find that the Wilkinson Indexes of the Pattern Rub book indicate that Royal MIlitary College of Canada offered prize swords from 1880s -1939 for military history; drills and exercises; physical training; training for war; and for conduct and discipline.


    I provided quick bios of the ex-cadets whose swords of honour are in the RMC museum collection.


    45 Colonel Edward Thorton Taylor (1850-1921)entered RMC 5 September 1878. He introduced hockey to Kingston, Ontario as an RMC student in 1877. He served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1881-2. Upon graduation, 27th June 1882 he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the RMC museum collection. He accepted a commission and served as a Captain with the 1st Battalion, Cheshire Regiment. He was promoted to Major p.s.c with the Cheshire Regiment by 1901. Colonel Edward Thornton Taylor was a Canadian soldier. He was the first Canadian born Commandant of the RMC. He was the first Commandant (1905-9) who was a graduate of the Royal Military College. Although Taylor retired in 1916, he commanded the labour corps in France in 1917.

    102 Gentleman Cadet William Anthony Forster Von Iffland (1883-4) entered RMC 9th September 1880. He served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1881-2. Upon graduation, 27th June 1880 he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the RMC museum collection. He died on 27 Feb 1885 in Woolwich, Kent, England.. He was listed as in memoriam in a RMC Club book, 1901.

    188 Gentleman Cadet William Archibald Hastings Kerr entered RMC 3rd September 1885. He served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1888-9.Upon graduation, he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the RMC museum collection. He accepted a commission with the R.O. As a Lieutenant, serving in Toronto, he served as vice president of the RMC Club in 1890. He was admitted as a student-at-law in 1889. He was listed as a student at law with Messerts Blake, Lash & Cassels, in Toronto, Ontario in 1892. He married Marion Angelique Wilkie. He served as president of the RMC club in 1905.

    292 Gentleman Cadet James Jay Bleecker Farley (1871-1960) entered RMC in 1889. Upon graduation in 27th June 1893, he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the museum collection. He accepted a commission with the Royal Engineers. He was appointed Lieutenant in the active militia 27th June, 1893. He was appointed Second Lieutenant 23th September 1893 with the Prince of Wales' North Staffordshine Regiment. He authored a memoir on his service during the Dongola campaign in Durham, Sudan in 1896.Capt. Farley served with "B" Battery, Quebec, P.Q. in 1901. Major Farley lived in Furzemoor, Exmouth Rd in Budleigh Salterton (Devon) in 1939. He died in Natale, Kenya on 17th September 1960

    802 Gentleman Cadet W.L.I. Gordon served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1910-11. Upon graduation in 1911, he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the museum collection.

    913 Gentleman Cadet C.B.R MacDonald served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1914. Upon graduation in 1914, he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the museum collection. He was offered a commission with the Corps of Royal Engineers. Capt C.B.R. MacDonald served as an ace/pilot/observer in World War I. Captain C. B. R. Macdonald resigned his commission on 18th June 1919. Colonel C.B.R. MacDonald and his wife lived in Kingston. Their son Sub Lieut John De Wolf MacDonald died on 3 Aug 1947 during WWII.

    1297 Gentleman Cadet G.D.S. Adami (15979) served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1918-20. Upon graduation in 1920, he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the museum collection. He was offered a commission with the Royal Engineers. Lt. G. D. S. Adami was promoted Capt. 20th Oct. 1930. He was appointed Lt.-Col. ( temp.) on 10 May 1945. Maj G.D.S. Adami O.B.E. retired on ret. pay 8th Jan 1948 and was granted the honourary rank of Lt Colonel.

    1514 Gentleman Cadet H.A. Richardson served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1922-3. Upon graduation in 1923, he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the museum collection.

    2265 Gentleman Cadet William Alexander Beaumont Anderson served as battalion sergeant-major at RMC 1935-6. Upon graduation in 1936, he was awarded the `Sword of honour`, which is currently in the museum collection. He was offered a commision with the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery. He attended Staff College Camberley 94. He was the personal assistant to General Crerar 1942. He was GSO 1, 1944-5. He was DMI Ottawa 1946-9. He was Commandant 1st Canadian Infantry Brigade, Germany 1954-5. He served as vice adjutant-general 1959-60. He served as Commandant of RMC 1960-1. He served as adjutant-general 1962-5. He was chief of Mobile Command, 1966.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Victoria Edwards; 12-16-2011 at 07:20 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria Edwards View Post
    Ross McKenzie (RMC museum curator) checked the museum databases (both electronic and the good, old always, reliable card index).....

    Some years ago- when Wilkinson Sword was still in business- Ross McKenzie had an intern-student send off a request for information. While the sword itself tells most of the story, it would have been interesting to see the Wilkinson records on who actually ordered it and when, etc. Unfortunately the records covering the period that the sword was ordered were missing. He writes `Given that you obtained our images from Mr. Robert Wilkinson Latham -it would appear that Wilkinson keep a copy of our inquiry on file. Can't blame them- it's a beautiful piece of work.`.
    Victoria
    I have to disagree with this. *The blade rub was taken, NOT when the query received but way back in 1919 when the sword was made and the etching of the blade was finished.

    It was the Wilkinson custom to take blade rubs of most swords and all the presentation/named one as reference.

    They were very useful to Wilkinson and I have found one reference at least where a Crimean presentation sword was returned in 1923 having been badly stored with a very rusty blade. *From the blade rubs Wilkinsons were able to polish off all the rusted parts and the etching and RE ETCH the blade with the original 1854 presentation inscription.

    That was the main purpose of taking rubs as well as keeping a record of what was etched on any particular sword.

    I will continue the search to see if anymore Canadian Military College swords survive. *Some of the blade rubs taken on thin paper have not survived well due to water and damp in bad storage.

    To sum up the Macdonnel etch was taken when the original blade was etched and before the sword was assembled and dispatched to Canada in 1919.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    I have blade rubs of some on your list. After 1919, very few blade rubbs were taken of just presentation named panels, if any

    Here is what I have

    FPH Taylor

    WAF Van Iffland

    AH Kerr

    JJ Bleker Farley

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    15

    Lightbulb

    Robert,

    Your having blade rubs of some of the blades in the collection of the RMC museum is good news.

    Come to think of it, a number of the College photos, paintings, etchings, sculptures and memorial stained glass include images of presentation swords. A couple examples are attached as are a few of the blades in the College arms collection.

    Since many ex-cadets are engineers/scientists, the process of manufacturing and taking & storing the artifacts, in this case blade rubs is interesting as is the fact that something as delicate as a blade rubbing still exists after 100+ years. I have seen 'grave stone & petroglyph rubs' before but was not aware that blade rubs or master etch plates existed in the manufacture of blades. How were the rubbings done e.g charcoal, wax, graphite on newspaper paper, butcher paper or velum?

    I recognize the College Coat of Arms which were designed the first Commandant Colonel Hewett C.M.G. and assigned to the College by George R.I. on 3 July 1920. I'm curious about the star in the RMC master etch plate; Is the design merely decorative or is it a Star of David indicating the religion of the cadet who won the sword?
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by Victoria Edwards; 12-17-2011 at 09:05 AM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    2,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria Edwards View Post
    Robert,

    Your having blade rubs of some of the blades in the collection of the RMC museum is good news.

    Come to think of it, a number of the College photos, paintings, etchings, sculptures and memorial stained glass include images of presentation swords. A couple examples are attached as are a few of the blades in the College arms collection.

    Since many ex-cadets are engineers/scientists, the process of manufacturing and taking & storing the artifacts, in this case blade rubs is interesting as is the fact that something as delicate as a blade rubbing still exists after 100+ years. I have seen 'grave stone & petroglyph rubs' before but was not aware that blade rubs or master etch plates existed in the manufacture of blades. How were the rubbings done e.g charcoal, wax, graphite on newspaper paper, butcher paper or velum?

    I recognize the College Coat of Arms which were designed the first Commandant Colonel Hewett C.M.G. and assigned to the College by George R.I. on 3 July 1920. I'm curious about the star in the RMC master etch plate; Is the sdesign merely decorative or is it a Star of David indicating the religion of the cadet who won the sword?
    Firstly the blade rubs.
    These were done using very thin paper (like cigarette paper) and then black wax used on some or charcoal on other. (The charcoal ones have suffered more from damp and bad storage.)

    As for the Star of David, it is NOT the star of David but the Wilkinson sword blade Proof mark surround which was used back in the late 1840's onwards and designed by Henry Wilkinson.
    The so called 'Double' triangle mark was derived from an ancient Armourers mark from the 15th or 16th century, perhaps even earlier. Other makers copies this surround once Henry Wilkinson became renown for his superb swords withstanding a hard proving.

    Here are the details from a mid 19th century catalogue.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •