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Thread: Custom Red Dragonfly Katana Finished

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    An irony there is that it was Rick Barret that was partially responsible for the empire of sword making known as Fred's efforts and schooling.
    Now you got us all curious.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubem Bastos View Post
    Now you got us all curious.
    Cicada may be a long lost fireside legend but the information is still out there to be read. Antonio's (Blade Design) pages may be the easiest place to find some of the articles of the travel and then organization of Cicada. This was at the same time that birthed the source for the Cold Steel katana and some of the medieval swords still associated as propriety of Huanuo. Because of Fred's new found influences and properties, the commentary that all the independant work has been Fred Chen, or Fred Chen influence will persist at least another decade. I sure don't mean to dismiss the continuing new growth of interests but so much has been trivialized regarding work a decade and more ago that little really remains aside from some 'ancient" lore.

    "member the tell" as it were and too few seem interested in looking to the past. A good amount of reading probably continues to be unread from the old ezines here at www.swordforum.com and even the continuing stacks here back to 2002. Unfortunately, the old Highlander board and the short lived 2000-2001 archives are unavailable.

    Hanwei has been a somewhat parallel and ongoing saga but usually with a good bit more presence shown above ground and more publicly known advances and business in general.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; archive.org may bring up the old Cicada Forge pages and notes

  3. #28
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    Thats a very good bit of information. This is why I'm glad I'm a member of this site. The truth is here somewhere. Not many of us know the proper history of how the last 15 years have transpired and where the development came from.

    I remember very well when the only Katana you could find on the market were Marto stainless steel blades.. I'm extremely happy with the development that those few men have made that strongly impacted the sword collector/martial artist.

    ~Chris
    Last edited by Chris Maguda; 02-05-2010 at 06:13 AM.
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  4. #29
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    I have to say, I'm Chris' instructor... and I had the privilege of seeing this sword in person when he first got it. I am now in the process of saving up so I can purchase on as well. The black samekawa and tsuka ito is really gorgeous. Much more in person than in the pictures.

    I'm excited to see more of this katana in action!

  5. #30
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    I'd also like to not confuse people, the kenjutsu that Chris is learning comes from Katori Shinto Ryu, not Bujinkan. The taijutsu I teach is from Bujinkan.
    "A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker." --- Buddha ☸

  6. #31
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    I just can't believe it..

    After my purchase of my Red Dragonfly Katana i have been practicing Tameshigiri with my Hanwei Shobu Zukuri Raptor preparing myself for the use of my hand forged RDS. We have been mainly cutting bamboo and the Raptor goes straight through as though the target was butter.

    Saturday after class my instructor and I decided to have a cutting session and we decided that I was ready to try my RDS Katana since I've had sufficient experience with my Raptor.

    Needless to say I was very excited.

    We got all set up and I tried a few cuts with my Raptor and as always, good clean cuts with no damage to the blade whatsoever.

    It was time.

    I took time to make sure my focus was high and my stance and grip were correct. I struck the target with a near perfect right to left diagonal cut, going through much like the Raptor, but only leaving a few Bamboo stands left to be severed.

    My heart dropped into my stomach as I beheld a 2.5 inch section going length-wise of the ha was bent and chipped..

    My instructor was as baffled as I was since he told me my cut looked very good...

    This blade should have been able to withstand thousands of cuts before anything like this would occur if it were made properly with folded 1095 steel. He was as angry and upset as I was.. if not more. My Raptor at 1/5th of the cost was cutting better than a hand forged blade and taking no damage.. it's quite sad..

    I wasn't as surprised as I thought I'd be however.. I did prepare myself before using this sword that something like this COULD just happen, but I never thought it would be on the first cut and the first time I'd used it.

    I saved for so long and waited and made sure I was at a sufficient skill level before even using this sword. It seems that either both my instructor and I are fools or this blade was just not forged correctly for it's intended use, which I did specify to RDS in my order that it was to be used for "Kata and Tameshigiri".

    I have contacted RDS via email. I'm awaiting a reply to see what/if they can do anything to help my situation. I know they probably won't because they'll blame it on "user error" so I'm probably stuck paying someone to put the edge back on my blade and then let it sit on a stand and look pretty..

    I'll keep this updated.. wish me luck
    Last edited by Chris Maguda; 03-29-2010 at 11:53 AM.
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  7. #32
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    Talk about wauw-factor!

    what are the stats, blade construction and type of steel?

    ps. I used to laugh at womens obsessive behaviour shopping shoes and bags...but this kat tops it all...;-)

    pps. oh and...aaaarrrrrrggghhhhh!!!! I just read your last inlay...what a nasty heattreat bummer! It did'nt top it all after all. I'm truly sorry for you...but listen. If we all signed a paper demanding money back or new blade sent to you - perhaps it would make a difference...(how can we support Chris here - any one familiar with the internet retail laws?)
    Last edited by Loke Emil; 03-29-2010 at 03:03 PM.
    Active in TSKSR

  8. #33
    Hey Chris,
    Extremely sorry to hear this. I truly feel your pain and disapointment.

    The large piece flying of the ha indicates an issue in the clay treatment before the quenching. The 'ashi' or legs of the hamon should allow only small chips to break off during extreme shock.
    Also it's not the full blade that snapped, the transition between the hard and soft steel was clearly there.
    The cutting edge seemed just too brittle. Could be the result of a too quick cooling down.

    I would still count on the good service that Kaneie offers (and Chris used to be a promotor of). Unless your blade turned in mid-air this clearly is a production error.

    To answer Loke's comment about retail laws: sorry to say but they don't apply as Chris bought directly from China. Laws are applied according to the country the business is located.


    Chris: if it's a comfort: I've seen this happen even on modern forged Japanese blades. Bamboo is extremly tough. Hitting it on the node of the bamboo or with the bamboo having the wrong length can shatter even nihonto like a toothpick.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke Emil View Post
    Talk about wauw-factor!

    what are the stats, blade construction and type of steel?

    ps. I used to laugh at womens obsessive behaviour shopping shoes and bags...but this kat tops it all...;-)

    pps. oh and...aaaarrrrrrggghhhhh!!!! I just read your last inlay...what a nasty heattreat bummer! It did'nt top it all after all. I'm truly sorry for you...but listen. If we all signed a paper demanding money back or new blade sent to you - perhaps it would make a difference...(how can we support Chris here - any one familiar with the internet retail laws?)
    Haha no kiddin.. I'm going to try my hardest to see what they will do to honor the bad blade I got. I'm guessing nothing, but we shall see. I'm waiting for a reply from RDS.

    That aside, the specs were:

    28.5" 1095 folded steel blade (Sanmai lamination)
    11.5 Tsuka black leather ito
    All silver fittings and habaki
    Black Same

    The pics will pretty much explain the rest.

    My fingers are crossed, but I'm not expecting anything much.. but hope remains.
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Ching View Post
    Hey Chris,
    Extremely sorry to hear this. I truly feel your pain and disapointment.

    The large piece flying of the ha indicates an issue in the clay treatment before the quenching. The 'ashi' or legs of the hamon should allow only small chips to break off during extreme shock.
    Also it's not the full blade that snapped, the transition between the hard and soft steel was clearly there.
    The cutting edge seemed just too brittle. Could be the result of a too quick cooling down.

    I would still count on the good service that Kaneie offers (and Chris used to be a promotor of). Unless your blade turned in mid-air this clearly is a production error.

    Chris: if it's a comfort: I've seen this happen even on modern forged Japanese blades. Bamboo is extremly tough. Hitting it on the node of the bamboo or with the bamboo having the wrong length can shatter even nihonto like a toothpick.
    Thank you. It is a pain that I never thought would come from such a thing. I guess the sword does become part of the soul as they say..

    I do understand the reason of the chipping being from bad heat treatment and I'm over 90% sure that's what the problem was.. my instructor has quite a keen eye for bad technique =P

    This is just not a let-down one can prepare for easily.

    All the build up to this moment was just AMAZING.. and poof.. there it goes.

    Thanks for the support everyone. It does help.
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  11. #36
    Good luck. I hope they stand behind their product for you.

  12. #37
    Interesting, I've never heard of this happening to a Dynasty forge sword or a Fred Chen/Huanuo blade for that matter.
    "When I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me..."

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Bouthner View Post
    Interesting, I've never heard of this happening to a Dynasty forge sword or a Fred Chen/Huanuo blade for that matter.
    Fred Chen and other production blades are not made with any sort of lamination so this particular problem is not an issue. The more complicated the construction of the blade, the more skill required and the more likely it is to scrap a blade or end up with a customer missing a chunk of his/her sword.

    Chris, I'm really sorry to hear about this. Since seeing your review, I have been really excited about RDS and have been in contact with them to make me a sword. One reason why I was so interested is because they make their blades - some of them at least - in honsanmai construction. Anyway, I hope things work out for you in the end. I have a feeling they will.

    By the way, I'd like to see the damage. Can you post some pics?

  14. #39
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    Just received a reply from Jason @ Red Dragonfly..

    They are going to forge a new blade for me!!!

    All I have to do is send the sword back and he said he'll personally make sure the next is perfect.

    I am just ECSTATIC!!

    I'll take some pics of the damage before I send it back and post 'em up.

    Thanks again for the support guys.. this community never ceases to amaze me.
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  15. #40
    your sword is amazingly beautiful. how can i get ahold of this forge for a shot at one for myself?

  16. #41
    Hey Chris,
    Glad to hear that RDS / Kaneie will fix you a new blade. Guess you were right about the good service after all
    Curious about the pictures.

    One last thing, I'd hate to be you when you pick up the new blade for another bamboo cutting exersize... 'No mind' tends to be quite difficult when handling precious blades.
    Good luck!

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Ching View Post
    Hey Chris,
    Glad to hear that RDS / Kaneie will fix you a new blade. Guess you were right about the good service after all
    Curious about the pictures.

    One last thing, I'd hate to be you when you pick up the new blade for another bamboo cutting exersize... 'No mind' tends to be quite difficult when handling precious blades.
    Good luck!
    If for ANYTHING I am glad I chose this company purely because of their customer support..

    I know what you mean Jeffrey! That fear will be hard to break inside, but Mushin always seems to make you forget everything else.

    As for where to find them? I'll PM you their web address =)
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Maguda View Post
    Just received a reply from Jason @ Red Dragonfly..

    They are going to forge a new blade for me!!!
    Good to hear. From what I've seen, most forges that make katana for tamashigiri will stand behind their work if you have proper training (it's clear that you do) and use correct targets (this typically does not include most of the things you find in your backyard ).

    Dave P

  19. #44
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    Holy Smokes!

    I am in the process of finalizing a tamahagane design with Jason, and sending a deposit for one similar to their "moonlight" tamahagane. I was all set until I read the post about the blade crumbling, that is such a shock to hear considering the high level of quality they put into their blades.

    I hope everything goes well for you!!

    Eric

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricS View Post
    Holy Smokes!

    I am in the process of finalizing a tamahagane design with Jason, and sending a deposit for one similar to their "moonlight" tamahagane. I was all set until I read the post about the blade crumbling, that is such a shock to hear considering the high level of quality they put into their blades.

    I hope everything goes well for you!!

    Eric
    Well Eric, the good news is that he assured me that this is the first problem they've had like this so far and as you can tell, if something IS wrong with the blade, they will at least honor it with getting you a new one.

    For them, this was just a rare case of bad heating/cooling and it made the ha very brittle.

    I'm sure my problem will make sure their Quality Control team/person really pay more mind to their blades. If I sold swords, I'd always test a blade before sending it out. Stop any problems before they start
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  21. #46
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    Chris is right about RDF's quality control.

    I've got an order with RDF at the moment awaiting completion. It would have been finish months ago but Jason the manager at RDF found a flaw/Hagire on my blade and told me about the issue straight away. Needless to say that he'd making a brand new blade for me as we speak

    Oh btw sorry to hear about your beautiful blade Chris, and is your new blade+koshirae exactly the same spec's as the old one?

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vu.Q.T View Post
    Chris is right about RDF's quality control.

    I've got an order with RDF at the moment awaiting completion. It would have been finish months ago but Jason the manager at RDF found a flaw/Hagire on my blade and told me about the issue straight away. Needless to say that he'd making a brand new blade for me as we speak

    Oh btw sorry to hear about your beautiful blade Chris, and is your new blade+koshirae exactly the same spec's as the old one?
    I 100% loved what he created for me the first time, so yes.. all specs are exactly the same as before.. the only thing I'm asking for is a re-mount with a new blade. Everything else is just amazing..

    It's rare when I think I like the other parts of a sword just as much as the blade. In this case, I might even like the fittings, ito, tsuba, tsuka, menuki MORE! They truly made a work of art out of this for me. It has a very artistic theme that matches exactly what I had pictured in my dream.
    "Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him."

    ~Bruce Lee

  23. #48
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    No arguments here the kosirae of your sword is pretty sweet...

  24. #49
    Chris: Just curious to know if RDS made good on this ...

    Cheers,
    Mark T

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark T View Post
    Chris: Just curious to know if RDS made good on this ...

    Cheers,
    Mark T
    Me too. I might be sending mine back due to some issues.

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