Fabris Video

[Martin Janicina]

Basic techniques after Salvator Fabris. Comments are of course welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKA-FRuDuLQ

[Ilkka Hartikainen]

Nice!

I really like this. I'm not all too familiar with Fabris, so don't feel capable of commenting much technically - but you sure look like Fabris in some of the actions.

Maybe you could work on the timing, some of the disengages seem like they were a bit late, and I think you are supposed to recover or move through after each it - some of the positions Fabris shows are so tricky to stand in, that the idea is likely to pass through them. After all, Fabris says that the images were drawn from life - as Phil Marshall suggested, perhaps this means that they were also drawn from motion, or to emphasize motion, and not poses.

Yours,
Ilkka

[Martin Janicina]

Thank you for your comment Ilkka. Regarding the cavazione, I think it is not necessary to do always cavazione di tempo (if you do not intend to strike). Honestly it is not always possible. It can occur that after finding your sword by the opponent you will disengage after a while, not immediately. Of course it is vital to have in mind the danger of the trust through debole of my sword. If he is moving I will strike with the cavazione di tempo, but if he will find me and will stop, I will not strike because he can take my tempo. According to me it depends, on what you want to do. Anyway thank you.

[Shawn Henthorn]

Thanks for this, I really enjoyed it! I hope to see more Fabris vids!

[Tom Leoni]

Martin,

Let me formally congratulate you on the crispness and the cleanliness with which you have obviously practiced Salvator Fabris' actions.

Great job indeed--this is one of the best swordsmanship videos I've seen.

I even had to look hard for something to say in the way of constructive criticism--so here it is: keep your left hand where Fabris keeps it, but this is a minor stylistic point.

Tom

[Bradley D. L.]

I, too, am impressed! Please continue providing us video of your progress!

My one critical comment is that the girata looks very different when you perform it than in the original plate - iirc, yours looks very much like one of the Capoferro plates, or a more modern inquartata. Is this a purposeful interpretation, is it an accident, or am I missing something?

[Gregory Mele]

It was so nice to see something that was instantly recognizable as what it was reconstructing! I really enjoyed this, and will point our rapier students to it, to see how another school is practicing the "Salvatoran Art".

Best,

Greg

[Martin Janicina]

Shawn: We will surely add some. Next will be probably something younger, Parise or Rossi, but Fabris will follow. I plan to do something from the second book.

Tom: Thanks a lot. I really appreciate to hear it. Left hand sometimes runs away because of habits form other masters but for the next time I will be more careful

Bradley: Thank you too. I am not sure which of the giratas you mean exactly. I will go through that.

Gregory: I am happy you liked it. My greetings to Chicago.

[James O'Dwyer]

Many thanks indeed for posting this!

I had been looking for some decent examples of the plays of Fabris on video, as I have been unable to get access to anyone to teach me in Melbourne.

This will certainly help my studies.

Benedictions,

James O'Dwyer

[Bradley D. L.]

Originally Posted by Martin Janicina

Bradley: Thank you too. I am not sure which of the giratas you mean exactly. I will go through that.

Sorry 'bout that - I was at work and could not actually access the video at that time to give you a timstamp - I was working from memory.

I was thinking of the sequence that begins around 1:11. I don't have my copy of Fabris handy (Thanks, Tom!), so I cannot look up the text to accompany the image, but you appear to be positioning your left foot much farther away from your right than the illustration shows.

[Todd Sullivan]

This video is superb! Most excellent and thanks for posting. It's videos like this that make me want to study rapier.

[David Rawlings]

pretty much agree with all that, although I'm no expert on Fabris, to my uneducated eye excellent again, many thanks.

[Bradley D. L.]

If anyone is interested, this video shows Fabris' guards, though not any actions.

[Randy Packer]

Excellent! Nice!

A great layout for teaching any style.

When I teach (advanced) Capoferro, I teach it the same way you presented this video. As one long drill. One side does a series of lunges with variations, the other responds. Second time through is variations.

It's a great way to get the students to practice and learn a large body of material quickly.

...I should upload my Marozzo stuff someday.

[Ken Mondschein]

I never post in this sort of thread, but I'll make an exception to the rule to compliment you on your obvious understanding on the principles behind the actions.

My only criticism would be not to wear shorts.

[Andrej Janičina]

Ken,

Thank you very much. This was only trainig video, maybe next time we will wear proper historical costumes and shoes.

regards
Andrej

[Ken Mondschein]

And masks, I hope!

[Bill Grandy]

I've only just now finally gotten to watch this video, but allow me to add to the praise. Wonderful work! Very crisp and clean combined with the proper athleticism.

[Greg G.S.]

Super video! I would like to see a follow up video with the defender actually defending himself, countering the attack, stepping back, traversing, or trying to take the tempo. Get into the guts of the thrusts you might say.

[Martin Janicina]

Thanks to all.

Greg: These techniques were filmed as they are described by Fabris. If they are made correctly my opponent should not be able to defend, because I counter in tempo to his forward movement, mostly when his front leg is lifted up. If he will be able to steal my tempo or to parry, I have made may counter probably out of the tempo or out of the measure.

[Jean-Loup Rebours-Smith]

It's so rare to see some good technique demonstrated on YouTube, very nice video, thank you for posting it

[Bill Grandy]

Originally Posted by Greg G.S.

Super video! I would like to see a follow up video with the defender actually defending himself, countering the attack, stepping back, traversing, or trying to take the tempo. Get into the guts of the thrusts you might say.

To add to what Martin said (and I don't know him or the participants of the video), some of these are already counters to the counter, and done just as recorded by Fabris. It isn't always obvious because they're doing it in tempo. (and bravo to that!)

For example, the very first technique in the video shows "our fencer" (to use Fabris' terminology) take the guard, the opponent attempts to counter with a cavazione, but is defeated because "our fencer" counters the counter.

And around 1:05 is a technique where the defender does indeed move back. "Our fencer" steps into measure to close the line. The opponent takes this opportunity to change lines and deliver a powerful cut. But "our fencer" moves back to avoid the attack, and follows up with a thrust, just as Fabris describes. So what you're asking for is already there, but as I said, it isn't so obvious because the fencers are doing it so well.

[Greg G.S.]

Originally Posted by Martin Janicina

Thanks to all.

Greg: These techniques were filmed as they are described by Fabris. If they are made correctly my opponent should not be able to defend, because I counter in tempo to his forward movement, mostly when his front leg is lifted up. If he will be able to steal my tempo or to parry, I have made may counter probably out of the tempo or out of the measure.

But in fencing you may correctly use the techniques of Fabris or others but that does not mean a successful thrust every time, even if Fabris say's it does. Just because your opponent has the ability to ward your attack does not mean you incorrectly performed his techniques. If your successful you perhaps caught them dosing. Fabris or any others Morrozzo, Viggiani, Meyer etc., are salesmen and telling you that their strikes or counters are better then anyone else's, or a sure thing, especially Fabris. It's in free play, and going against someone who's not willing to take the hit, that the learned compilation of the different masters comes into play, and that the teachings on the plates are nothing more than a foundation of possibilities that may or may not come up in a duel. Not unlike modern self defense DVD's that profess secret moves that the CIA doesn't what you to know, and sure you can go out and Green Beret´ some unsuspecting untrained person neck into a pretzel, but going up against someone of equal talent on a dark sidewalk out of the blu... It's better to scoot then shoot if you ask me.

It's obvious, your opponent does not look like she's reacting to you with any mutations to defend herself (A little hand work to move the blade out of line would be nice, I't stagnate play). Every strike can become a counter and every counter can become a strike. If this is you opponents best ability to recognize what you are doing and mutate for her defense or reformulate another attack, then perhaps you should go up against someone that's closer to your ability and scholarship, the Art-of-Fence is the "Art-Of-Defense". If your telling me that your video is anything more then duplicating Fabris plates, then it's not the real world, for that's why I mention a second video to see the application of these attacks or counters up against real world attacks and defenses. It's a great video for looking to make a graceful duplication of plates "you preform Fabris techniques to end in the plate pose" and "she starts an attack and strives to end in the plate pose for you".

Try leather gloves and leather shoes, get rid of the tennis shoes
so you can get a little slide in there. Just because they have no
gloves on in the plates doesn't mean you have to fight nude too.

It's in the malay of blade work between you and your opponents strikes and wards that grace might happen as you find the right moment to strike a pose by fabris or any other master.

[Steven Reich]

Originally Posted by Greg G.S.

Try leather gloves and leather shoes, get rid of the tennis shoes
so you can get a little slide in there. Just because they have no
gloves on in the plates doesn't mean you have to fight nude too.

It's in the malay [sic] of blade work between you and your opponents strikes and wards that grace might happen as you find the right moment to strike a pose by fabris or any other master.

Sorry to sound so direct, but I fail to see the point of this post; Martin is certainly familiar with the uncertainties of freeplay and assaults, so pointing it out to him is actually a little insulting (given the quality of his video, I'd say that he is also quite familiar with Italian rapier).

Bluntly speaking, two posts into a forum is a little early to start lecturing others on the "realities" of freeplay and bouting, especially considering that some of the people who have posted here are at the forefront of Italian Rapier in WMA. Additionally, if you feel that Viggiani, Marozzo, Fabris, etc. or merely selling their systems, you need to re-read their treatises. Yes, they state their opinions, but they also give the reasoning behind them such that you can see why they have reached the conclusions they have--that is, they give the rules of their arts.

Steve

[Greg G.S.]

Originally Posted by Steven Reich

Sorry to sound so direct, but I fail to see the point of this post;

Steve

My Original post was to inquire about a follow up video of the techniques in free play, but some(I won't mention who) are insinuating that the video shows a person trying to defend themselves against a Fabris attack or counter attack, that's useful every time just because it Fabris! Is say it is a plate by plate reenactment on both parties. And That's Fine. The quality of video is nice but tennis shoes create a different foot feel (this creates a balance issue) and they have their hands sometimes to far out as in modern fencing (because of the tennis shoes). not to mention the defender does not use her left hand to move the blade off line, as fencing manuals suggest. Better to take a cut to the hand then a strike to the throat. That's my statement about plates, they are perfect scenarios that "MAY" come up in a duel.

As far as really discussing the realities of Elizabethan era fencing, just the fact that everyone is padded and has a mask on creates a sense of safety that would not be evident, in a school of fence in the 16th century, every student trained under scholars privilege, much less a duel, modern and period fencing reenactment is most likely to fast in its execution, because we live in a no true harm environment and risks
are taken by both parties because of the above mentioned facts. Take the masks off, cork you tips with that fine wine enjoyed over the weekend or use aluminum balanced blades, not the whipy epée style blades in place of stiffer rapiers, fight like students under scholars privilege, your willingness to engage becomes becomes more studied, hopefully more fluid, in time.

"Bluntly speaking, two posts into a forum is a little "

Why so thinned skinned?.... Are you demanding justice... Satisfaction?
I guess in the 1500's we would already have esquires drawing up the letter of what's permitted or not permitted in a duel, or some other compensation to keep us out of a duel.

So... come sir your passado