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Hi Gabe, > > As an American Indian, I know a few Tribes who are trying to do the same thing after their martial ways were completely decimated by a change in climate, environment, and horrible poverty and oppression.<< Your example above might prove educational to me. I'm trying to couch my questions so they don't sound mocking (they aren't supposed to be) -- Unfortunately, after re-reading what I wrote, I sound trite. But I am seriously interested; so, please bear with me: 1. How are these tribes "recreating" an extinct fighting style? 2. Was there such a thing as an "organized" Indian style of personal combat? And if so, 3. Are there actual 'waza' that have been handed down? I've heard the popular stories that "Indians" didn't punch or kick -- but that they wrestled ...The story might be as "factual" as the incorrect legend that "Indians won't attack at night." 4. Are these Tribes "reverse engineering" extant concepts into techniques that today's Native Americans feel better about -- 'waza' that represents what he *thinks* the techniques should be? In other words, do they have an agenda, and are they skewing the research to fit their model? (In my opinion, this is what that Viking "researcher" is doing.) 5. And are these "ancient, rediscovered" techniques further corrupted by knowledge of collegiate wrestling, Asian martial arts, and European traditions? This question really should be appended to #4. I'm not really trying to play Devil's Advocate, but you have brought up a very interesting situation. And, harkening back to your original statement above I infer that these Tribes are trying to obtain part of the lost culture. However, authentic Native American traditions still live within arts, crafts, stories/song, and especially dance -- why do some Tribe members feel it is necessary to rediscover their lost heritage through personal combat techniques? Especially when there is no proof/record of a "style" or set of techniques. And I'm not denying the techniques existed (same for Korean swordsmanship) -- However, there is no way of discovering what the techniques were. Heck, they could have been similar to jujutsu ... we can surmise, but we will never know. That humans will discover a way of manipulating another's body (jujutsu) is a given; ergo it is possible the Native Americans developed the techniques. I've seen 15th century European prints of tomoenagi and other jujutsu/judo waza. So it could very well have happened with the Native Americans. There is just no proof. Of course my statements are invalid if you tell me techniques have been handed down, or otherwise recorded. Sheesh ... it's hard work being an open-minded skeptic!! I look forward to your response. Regards, Guy
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