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Thread: 1796 Spadroon

  1. #1

    1796 Spadroon

    I have a curious spadroon. It has the copper grip of a sergeant's model, but the fixed, hingeless grip has the embellishments of an officers model. Is it a assemblage of different parts or just a varient? The blade is plain and 30 and half inches. I notice the dent in the grip. I assume that is from a pair of pliers. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Mine is exactly the same except (as you indicate) for the decoration and the blade is shorter.





    Last edited by WBranner; 05-27-2010 at 03:42 PM.

  3. #3
    Ah yes, I've seen that pic online before. Can you post some pics of the pommel for me? I've contacted a few people who I consider very knowledgable about the 1796 infantry sword but alas, no response yet. I am very curious about this!
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Congratulations on grabbing this one Morgan. I was getting twitchy watching that listing and am glad it is staying in the family, as it were. This seems right as rain to me, as I have seen several like it and Shiloh had a twin of this one listed last year.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; a lunar spadroon

  5. #5

    Thumbs up Nice spadroon.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan butler View Post
    I have a curious spadroon. It has the copper grip of a sergeant's model, but the fixed, hinge-less grip has the embellishments of an officers model. Is it a assemblage of different parts or just a variant? The blade is plain and 30 and half inches. I notice the dent in the grip. I assume that is from a pair of pliers. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
    Thanks Morgan,

    We all appreciate your sharing the pictures. What is it about spadroons? I get all excited every time I see one!!! My favorites, of course, are the ivory-hilted ones. This hilt looks like many of the 1796 Officers swords I've seen (which are not spadroons). I have one that is double-edged and one that is single-edged with this style hilt (both of them are robust swords)

    Hi W. Branner,

    Nice looking spadroon! Thanks for uploading the photos.

    Arrivederci, Jon
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 05-27-2010 at 07:16 PM.
    "A wise person aspires the study of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy teacher, an unlucky person finds yet another student... in the guise of a genuine Master. Sadly, a fool cannot tell the difference either way." Anecdotes of The Unknown Swordsman

  6. #6
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    Great catch, Morgan! Perhaps David C. can shead some light--but I know what you mean--seems like the earlier ones could come with fixed shells and some embelishment but not quite an officer's type of sword.
    Tom Donoho

  7. #7
    You have a nice sword there Morgan.
    You are right it is a blend of the officer and sergeant’s pattern, but not necessarily a new coupling.

    The guard apart, it looks like a generic sergeants sword, not sure if the wiring is original, the most common (correct?) form was one straight wire and one twisted, and this is the pattern that is embossed on the copper sheet on swords using that sort of grip covering, but this is not a universal trait and a simple twist as with yours was used too. I have to say it looks ok.

    The counter guard is unusual in that it has the officer’s acanthus design on the blade side but a simple form of it, most are more ornate. It may be a replacement but not necessarily so. There are variants of this pattern, officer swords with copper grips, silver hilted plain versions etc. and they are often thought of as militia swords.

    I can’t be definitive, but I think there is a reasonable chance that your sword is just slightly atypical of the type and the guard is original to the piece.

    David

  8. #8
    This is a current auction. Please take a look at our guidelines for discussing auctions. I am going to lock the thread until the auction ends.


    ...the auction has ended and the thread is open again.
    Last edited by J.G. Hopkins; 05-28-2010 at 09:29 AM.

  9. #9
    I'm most embarrassed

    I did get the sword, I really can't afford it but at that price it was irresistable!

    I have always wanted a fixed hilt 1796 pattern. I have heard that the sergeants models have more robust hilts. It will be interesting to see. The pommel sort of threw me off as well. Without the fluted pommel after the repair, it sort of looks like a cool civilian backsword. A very intriguing varient. It will be interesting to inspect the blade up close and see if it has officers engravings or not.

    Thanks a lot everyone. It was good to hear from you!
    Last edited by morgan butler; 05-28-2010 at 09:48 AM.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  10. #10
    I received the spadroon yesterday. It was in good shape. I noticed that the pommel is larger than the officer sword version which I found interesting and also attractive. With the rear quillion repair it looks rather like some kind of civilian backsword. I noticed also that the guard is much more robust than the officer version as well. The grip as David C. stated is one wire and one twisted wire. Its not the copper sheath type.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  11. #11
    I have two questions regarding this particular spadroon.
    The first question is, I found a Civil War musicians sword scabbard on-line. The length is right but I am curious about the width. I believe musicians swords are single edged. Does anyone have familiarity with both? The scabbard isnt much.
    The other question is about the small acanthus leaf ornamentation on the fixed guard. I know the M.96 hilt design is based on the Prussian Infantry Officer pattern. Is it possible that this spadroon of mine is a pre-1796 infantry officer sword?
    Thanx.
    Last edited by morgan butler; 12-06-2010 at 03:45 PM.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    My buddy has a musicians sword with scabbard, but it never occurred to me that it would fit a 1796 type.

    I'd check with the seller on his blade dimensions, but I would not think it would fit.

    Unless...

    It is not the original scabbard to themusicians sword. I've seen any number of swords with a scabbard that doesn't belong to them.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by morgan butler View Post
    I have two questions regarding this particular spadroon.
    The first question is, I found a Civil War musicians sword scabbard on-line. The length is right but I am curious about the width. I believe musicians swords are single edged. Does anyone have familiarity with both? The scabbard isnt much.
    The other question is about the small acanthus leaf ornamentation on the fixed guard. I know the M.96 hilt design is based on the Prussian Infantry Officer pattern. Is it possible that this spadroon of mine is a pre-1796 infantry officer sword?
    Thanx.
    Short answer is yes Morgan,

    Whilst the 3 patterns of the 1796 Infantry swords are clear (Officers, Sergeants, and Drummers swords - which are really sergeants swords with a shorter blade). a lot of slight variations exist, which is probably a reflection of: firstly the style of sword was in use long before it was made a pattern, and secondly that it was used by many militia organisations during the period that had no requirement to comply with Army regulations. I suspect also local cutlers supplying the militia were less exact in their hilt building than those big names in the capital supplying the regular army .There is also the added complication that it was used by the Prussian and Russian army during the period as well although usually coupled with a slightly different form of blade.

  14. #14
    The other thing I've noticed when comparing it with similar hilts, is that the pommel on mine is much rounder. Whereas others, including Mr. Branners have the urn shaped pommels which are flat on the bottem.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

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