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Thread: What kind of sword is this?

  1. #1
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    What kind of sword is this?

    Hello all,
    The attached pic is of my gr gr grandfather and was taken in 1862 when he got promoted to a Lieutenant in the Palmetto SharpShooters, S.C. Vols, Confederate States Army. I was wondering what type of weird looking sword that is he he is wearing. If you look closely, it looks like some sort of small chain as the knuckel guard.

    I am just curious about it. It might have even just been some sort of studio prop on hand or maybe the one his great grandfather, Col. Henry White, carried in the Rev War? Who Knows? Any info would be appreciated.
    Thanks,
    David Edelen
    What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
    I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die dogs--I was a man before I was a king!
    ---From The Road of Kings

  2. #2
    David,
    Can you try to attach that pic again?

    Jonathan

  3. #3
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    The pic

    Hello,
    I can't seem to get it to do it. A box popped up saying my file exceeded the limits for this file type to post or whathave you. I don't know what to do to post it.
    Dave E.
    What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
    I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die dogs--I was a man before I was a king!
    ---From The Road of Kings

  4. #4
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    Land of Sun and Stone, where the Free dwell...
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    just resize the picture to a smaller size
    Daring beyond power, risking against prudent advice and optimists in danger...
    Thucydides

  5. #5
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    I have no idea how to do that.
    What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
    I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die dogs--I was a man before I was a king!
    ---From The Road of Kings

  6. #6
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    David, email me the picture and I can resize real easy. PM sent
    I dunno. Iron is sort-of the Paris Hilton of metals, and carbon, nickel, chromium silicon, etc. are a bunch of good looking guys she just met at a party. - Al Massey

  7. #7
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    Hi David, all

    The attachment feature will resize even very large uploaded images automatically if uploaded from your drive. It will not resize images transloaded via an image url. You can host images as simply as uploading to www.tinypic.com as well. You can then either supply an image url or display it via the image tags. At some point in the past, I know you have shared hosted pictures so I know you were able to at one time.

    The sword sounds like a militia officer sword of one nature or another. There were some few chain guards that do go back to the American Revolution period but I suspect this one will have traits of a knights helmet, a standing eagle, or perhaps just an L or pistol shaped pommel with a bone handle. The Palmetto armory did have some swords manufactured but a good number of such swords were quite plentiful. I look forward to seeing what ever it is and as Sam mentions, as long as you can share it with someone, Ther eis also the album feature now added via you own control panel that also automatically resizes images.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; Did the sword have a handle shape like one shown below?
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    Last edited by Glen C.; 05-31-2010 at 07:27 PM.

  8. #8
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    More, still the tip of a very large iceberg of variety and timeline. Prewar, postwar, earlier century, later century.
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  9. #9
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    Hello all,
    Here goes again:
    What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
    I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die dogs--I was a man before I was a king!
    ---From The Road of Kings

  10. #10
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    The original was a dagherratype, a glass plate negative type of pic. A photo experto told me the pic was actually a negative and therefore backwards (note the weapons on wrong sides). He said if I took the glass plate to a photo place they might could use it as a negative and produce a positive pic, which would reverse everything to the sides the weapons are on, hair part, etc, maybe even color or shade of uniform and trim. My uncle has the pic and one day I want to try that. Anyway, did I add that he was my gr gr grandfather, Lt. John Warren White, Co. "K", Palmetto SharpShooters, S.C. Vols, C.S.A.?
    Dave E.
    Alabama
    Last edited by David Edelen; 05-31-2010 at 09:16 PM.
    What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
    I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die dogs--I was a man before I was a king!
    ---From The Road of Kings

  11. #11
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    Smile

    Great picture and background story David. This is indeed as I thought and one of the Roman helmet types with the roached feather mane on top. Wrong to call them knight's helmets I guess, as the form really goes back to the republican French characteristics that go back to the late 18th century.

    I took the liberty of flipping the photo and also some cutouts of the belt and hat as well as the sword. I love the Palmetto hat plate. The Ames Sword Co. sold a great many swords to South Carolina before the war began and I would suspect that sword was of that source, albeit the fellow could have come across the sword at any point. Jonathan had at one point pulled some plates of South Carolina specific swords with Palmetto counterguards but this one is not of those batches but a more ordinary look.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; I am misremembering the name of someone else we researched swords on but I will find it again

    Here is that discussion on Picken's sword and Palmetto counterguards
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80072
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    Last edited by Glen C.; 05-31-2010 at 10:09 PM.

  12. #12
    Glen,
    Was it Pickens?

    Jonathan

  13. #13
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    Here are the Peterson "bible" pages on the militia officer swords, again just a preview of a pretty in depth look at the type.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.G. Hopkins View Post
    Glen,
    Was it Pickens?

    Jonathan
    Yup, found and linked that one.

    I have a soft spot for South Carolina in my ancestry but larger war ties to Virginia during the colonial and revolution period, then Missouri in the civil war timeline.

    Horstman of Philadelphia was another regular source.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; another dandy example of these militia swords
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  15. #15
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    Hello all,
    Thanks so much y'all! I had thought that it might even be the sword of his great grandfather, Lt. Col Henry White who served in the Revolutionary War as first a 1st Lt in a S.C. Unit in the Continental Army, then as a Lt. Col. in the S.C. militia (his was a mounted unit). Interesting to note that in an article about a Rev War battle, the Battle of Mudlick I think it was, it said Col. White shot one of the "green coated" British cavalry officers from his saddle, killing him. That would be one of Banister Tarleton's men ("Tarleton's Raiders" and also known as "Bloody Tarleton.). It brings to mind the nasty cav officer in "Patriot", which depicted he and his men as wearing green on their uniforms.

    Anyway, thanks for the info an all.
    Dave
    What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
    I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die dogs--I was a man before I was a king!
    ---From The Road of Kings

  16. #16
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    I had third generation ancestors migrating to the Fairfield/Orangeburg area of SC from Virginia in the early 1700s. Their great grandparents were fairly prosperous in Virginia by the 1660s. Later generations followed Boone through Kentucky to Missouri. Daniel Morgan (Cowpens) and his family are in my woodpile of ancestry and some of my paternal surname show up in SC rosters during the revolution. Farmers, teachers, preachers and politicians.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; keep an eye out for the old crescent hat plates
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  17. #17
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    That is interesting how our people migrated to make this nation. My Whites came from England to Va, then down to S.C. where many migrated to many other states. My gr gr grandfather was killed in in the War for southern Independence so his wife remarried and they all went to Texas. His son came back to S.C. and became a preacher and wound up in Alabama in the 1920s or so and thus I grew up in Alabama. America! There can be only one!!!
    Dave
    What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
    I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die dogs--I was a man before I was a king!
    ---From The Road of Kings

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by David Edelen View Post
    Hello all,
    ...Col. White shot one of the "green coated" British cavalry officers from his saddle, killing him. That would be one of Banister Tarleton's men ("Tarleton's Raiders" and also known as "Bloody Tarleton.). It brings to mind the nasty cav officer in "Patriot", which depicted he and his men as wearing green on their uniforms.

    Anyway, thanks for the info an all.
    Dave

    From 1778 Tarleton commanded the British Legion, a loyalist volunteer unit of light cavalry skirmishers (- hence the green jacket), under Clinton. Some of the officers were British but the troops were mainly Royalist Americans.

    Just thought I'd point it out, since Hollywood didn't care to

    The Reynolds portrait shows Tarleton in the Legion jacket

  19. #19
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    One very interesting site (of sites) relates the early expansion of colonial America affected by the growth of highways and byways.

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....ails.html#King

    Along with the King's Highway came other parallel roads and these show travel fairly straight forward to the interiors of the Carolinas and Georgia from Virginia and the more northern colonies. It took some time to expedite the passes through the Appalachians and it was not really before the Louisiana Purchase days that the land roads made more sense than going the long way around via coastal and riverways.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; it is the history and evidence of early records that finally tied up
    some loose ends amongst a few generations venturing just a few hundred miles from their first homes

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