Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Shamshir Signature Translation Needed

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    97

    Shamshir Signature Translation Needed

    Shamshir Signature Translation Needed ...Finely forged blade with brass or gold inlays...Nice curve and sharp with double edged tip...Also the mounts seem unusual...it appears to be meant to be worn slung over the shoulder or carried edge up! Sword came from Iraq in the 1960s. Ed edhicks82@aol.com
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by Ed Hicks; 08-25-2010 at 05:09 PM.
    Ed Hicks


    910-425-7000

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    97
    222
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Ed Hicks


    910-425-7000

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    kuwait
    Posts
    201
    i cant read the first Cartouche (from top to bottom) or the 3rd and 4th. but the 2nd says "work of Assadallah"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    nomadic
    Posts
    144
    Isn't Asadalla a famous cutler, often claimed upon? Like Ulfbert or like Solingen and Toledo marks that are often faked?
    Beautiful looking sword with a dropped yelman (Turkish feature).
    I had a lovely English hanger with the "fake" Solingen mark "me fecit Salingen"
    I see Persian, Tartaric, and Arabic swords slung for edge-up wear and sometimes in old pictures worn that way; it appears to have been an option of choice? This intrigues me.

  5. #5
    I might be wrong but I don't think this is a Turkish blade, it is too curved to be Turkish or Arabic, I must say it is also too curved for a regular Persian shamshir; yelman on a shamshir is unusual but I think this is a Persian shamshir.
    "The relationship between West(Occident) and East(Orient) is indeed an example of a relationship of power and domination. Orientalism is thus a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction made between the Orient and the Occident. It is a Western style of dominating, restructuring and building hegemony over the Orient.İt is an accepted grid for filtering through the Orient into Western consciousness, into the general culture."
    From "Orientalism" by Edward Said

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    kuwait
    Posts
    201
    oh btw, i seen some pictures of arab men wearing swords with edges up. seems to be a common thing back then.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    10,682
    It reads in Persian "The King of kings of the Prophets Mohammad"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    97
    Thank you for the help with this sword...Is that translation the top section only or the entire four parts? Ed
    Ed Hicks


    910-425-7000

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    kuwait
    Posts
    201
    just thought i add this picture.



    i wonder, if wearing a sword edge up had offered any advantage.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hicks View Post
    Thank you for the help with this sword...Is that translation the top section only or the entire four parts? Ed
    You are welcome. This was only the upper cartouche. The lower cartouche reads:

    The revealer of miracles the selected one Ali.

    I cannot read the other cartouche Could you post better pics?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by Manouchehr M. View Post
    You are welcome. This was only the upper cartouche. The lower cartouche reads:

    The revealer of miracles the selected one Ali.

    I cannot read the other cartouche Could you post better pics?
    I will get better images on soon-Thank you again for the help. Ed
    Ed Hicks


    910-425-7000

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    nomadic
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Alnakas View Post
    just thought i add this picture.



    i wonder, if wearing a sword edge up had offered any advantage.
    First and fore-most it protects the cutting edge of the sword from rubbing itself dull inside the sheath. This may be especially important with the jostling of mounted travel; both written and visual sources suggest that in the modern Middle East it may be a style of wear favoured by mounted men. I have read that the sword is easier to draw while mounted in this configuration. One notes the opposite system prevailing to some extent in Japan (only to some extent; it was largely a thing that changed over time there), whereby the tachi was slung edge-down, while the later katana was thrust edge-up thru the belt. Visual art shows a perhaps brief period though where mounted soldiers wore the slung sword with its edge down and foot soldiers the edge-up configuration. Persian influence was present in the art and military technology of both these regions.
    So, it's a very good question. Not many answers; just interest.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    97

    Gold cartouche close-ups

    Gold cartouche close-ups
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Ed Hicks


    910-425-7000

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    10,682
    I can only read the first part of the third cartouche

    Oh the conqueror of the enemy

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    97
    Thanks again...That's quite an invocation for one sword. Ed
    Ed Hicks


    910-425-7000

  16. #16
    Yes indeed it would have advantages, although the Arabian gentleman seems to be doing it in spite of conventionally placed mounting rings. It would reduce dulling of the blade, especially in a country where grains of sand were likely to find their way in, and perhaps also the edge cutting into the wood. I think it would also hang more steadily. Imagine a sword so curved as to be actually v-shaped, and suspended by rings in the re-entrant angle. It would simply fall over.

    That begs the question, though, why it doesn't simply have two rings on the back of the scabbard. I think it is possible that the sword was fixed to the saddle, with the side ring connected to the saddle bow, and the lower one to a strap which passed backwards under the stirrup leather. That would make sense when a firearm was the usual weapon for use on foot, and the sword was mainly needed when on horseback.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •