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Thread: Early Ames And Other's Militia NCO Patterns

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. Donoho View Post
    Glen--am I missing something?--cannot open your thumbnails that are supposed to be attached--Tom.
    I have noticed this in other threads from other posters as well. Maybe they will come back. I have given up trying to explain the occasional forum glitches. If I feel froggy, maybe I will attach them all again or host them in a different manner.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    I have noticed this in other threads from other posters as well. Maybe they will come back. I have given up trying to explain the occasional forum glitches. If I feel froggy, maybe I will attach them all again or host them in a different manner.
    Okay--no big deal--thanks for trying.
    Tom Donoho

  3. #153
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    Well... just to add confusion to the matter, I can see Glen's thumbnails just fine. I could also see them yesterday without a problem. Perhaps a glitch on your end Tom?

    Don't you just love computers?
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  4. #154
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    George,

    I can see those posted by Graham, but not Glen's recent ones--I will try a different browser and check some computer stuff.
    Tom Donoho

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Wheeler View Post
    Well... just to add confusion to the matter, I can see Glen's thumbnails just fine. I could also see them yesterday without a problem. Perhaps a glitch on your end Tom?

    Don't you just love computers?
    Keep in mind that a moderator or administrator's view may differ from that of others. For instance, I cannot edit those threads, so I don't know if the attachments are there or not. As mentioned, this is not the only series of attachments that day that seem to have vanished, I saw them when I posted them but do not see them now. I seriously doubt that Tom's system and browser are the same as mine, which kind of points to a system fluke of the 6th (or thereabouts). To be honest, not worth worrying about if some never see them. The same in the composite sword thread and at least one other thread I had seen last Thursday.

    In addendum, it appears now that attachments as late as yesterday are falling out of view after the 24hr curfew. So. not just attachments of the 6th but an ongoing "anomaly". Danged if I am going to plow through a list of browser and system possibilities that have not changed one whit on my end. Bad enough that I have to do that for another's site archaic security certificates so I can update information.
    Last edited by Glen C.; 09-09-2013 at 01:53 PM.

  6. #156
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    We will just have to deal with it the best we can for now--of course, photos and attachments are very helpful and nice to have. Hang in there, guys.
    Tom Donoho

  7. #157
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    N. P. Ames Springfield NCO

    This is another, but somewhat unique version of the bone gripped NCO. It is marked N.P.Ames, Springfield. At this time Ames was actually located in Cabotville MA and they owned a piece of property once called the Springfield Canal Co. I suspect Ames used the name Springfield for marketing purposes.
    N.P.Ames died in 1847, so I will date this one to the mid 1840's. The blade is etched and I may be able to bring a little bit back. This is the oldest Ames marked version I have seen.

    There are several feeBayers describing all the bone gripped, cuneiform swords as a "model 1840", and dating many of them as ACW. If you know any of these folks, please try to dissuade them because it throws the market values off and confuses the beginning collectors.
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  8. #158
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    Glad to see this one in happy hands. The earliest form of these are at the head of the thread. Those short blades with the cross hatched grips vs the reeding. The Peterson example, of course, with the egg pommel quite similar. The clamshell and cross hatching, whether bowtie or the ball quillions are definitely of the earlier 1840s Mexican War era. The blade length going to 25" in the "standard" still wider profile 1850 pattern.

    I am not sure how one might approach the corrosion aside from acids (the de-corroder stuff). I have had ok luck working with Noxon (oxalic acid) with green or blue kitchen scrubbies to soften and lift rust. The Picreator de-corroder stuff is touted as great but I would watch it carefully. Others write electrolysis is the way to go.

    The Hamilton book speaks a bit about the Springfield/Cabotville markings. I am still unpacked from a week ago or I would pull that. There is a fun little article I had posted up some years ago that also goes to the Cabotville and then Chicopee addresses.
    http://newenglandtravels.blogspot.co...civil-war.html

    Do show an after, I am very interested in how you proceed with it.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; still watching a few more but my eagles are calling me

  9. #159
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    N.P Ames Militia Sword Continued

    I dug out my copy of Hamilton's book; it was just over my head (duh) and there it is on page 75. It is always nice to have a picture of an obscure sword that you posses in a book. Hamilton dates it 1840-45.
    I was able to bring out more of the etching and it seems similar to the example on page 54.
    There was gold paint on the brass parts and on the blade under the langets. To remove the paint under the langet I had to take it apart. To my chagrin the bone came away in two pieces. NOT MY FAULT. It had been broken during the original assembly because there was a residue of hide glue. I scrape of most of it and resorted to a clear epoxy. It went back together perfectly. I repaired the wood inserts and badah boom, it was done. I left most of the gold on paint the hilt as it does not hurt and blended in the the traces of gilt.
    Picture no5 is a before shot.
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    Last edited by T. Graham; 10-03-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  10. #160
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    Just a heads up for anyone following this thread. A good many photos I posted in this thread will disappear, as the host I have been using is shutting down that service in March 2014(kind of like the XP OS support is going away in April).

    I will be posting a gallery of sorts in some following posts and will attach them here at SFI, rather than rely on another host.

    So, if there is any interest in filling in the blanks of missing photos, just quote the post in question. I definitely have the files.

    Attached here is another short bladed Ames with most of a scabbard and good Ames ivory.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; this last, one I had found months ago and it finally came down to my offered price
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  11. #161
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    I was wrong!!!

    When this thread was started the sword in the first two pictures was thought to be an early Ames NCO sword. The bone and cuneiform hilt seemed to fit the pattern. The second sword has the same cross guard, but with a grip and band of the US M1860 type and a parallel ground, arris type, blade.
    I now think they are both theatrical swords. The last three photos show a Ames cup hilt rapier with the same grip and pommel. It also has a parallel ground, arris blade. It can only be theatrical.
    Any comments? should I start a theatrical sword thread?
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  12. #162
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    T,
    I wouldn't be so sure of that. Ames produced swords for the military, militia, societies and theater--most having functioning blades. With these "odd" swords, we can never be sure what was the intent--and that is the fun and fascination of it.
    Tom Donoho

  13. #163
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    Pettibone???

    Here is a different version. Note that it has grip is without any contour and two bands. The cross guard is similar to the late types, but one side has the wheel design and other has a diamond. I hope someone has idea who made, so I do not have to take it apart to look for clues on the tang.
    It does have a Pettibone feel about it.
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  14. #164
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    Good detecting Tim. The one first posted in 2011 seems to have an nco or musician spadroon type blade but the cross looks spot on to the one you show.

    Of my two spadroon bladed examples, the longer bladed one seems to be of the
    Horstmann hilt parts and the shorter Musician bladed one an Ames type of grip and guard casting.

    The first one in that set, I was never sure of but theatrical makes some sense of it. Edit to add what I said about the ball end guard example in the first post of this thread "Variety is the spice of discovery, really. I am also posting a couple of pictures of a very related example I really can't define as to who and when but it is possibly older than the other two above."

    Cheers

    Hotspur; the spadroon bladed examples in these pictures
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    Last edited by Glen C.; 01-19-2014 at 06:28 PM.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. Graham View Post
    Here is a different version. Note that it has grip is without any contour and two bands. The cross guard is similar to the late types, but one side has the wheel design and other has a diamond. I hope someone has idea who made, so I do not have to take it apart to look for clues on the tang.
    It does have a Pettibone feel about it.
    Don't know but I picked up one of those with a very short blade. Let me see if I can find the files.

  16. #166
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    The sword closet is buried right now and I have not gotten around to pulling it apart, as it is threaded. More dagger length, likely a military association of some sort but unmarked on the blade apparent or any specific motif.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; complete with scabbard and an unidentified knot that had probably been added at some point
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  18. #168
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    Bogusness







  19. #169
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    Photos

    Here are some cadet carriers of bone grip "NCO" swords and rather strange, political/social fellow.
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    Last edited by T. Graham; 01-29-2014 at 10:40 AM.

  20. #170
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    Graham,
    What dates do you make for these photos? That would help put the swords into context.
    Thanks.
    Tom Donoho

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. Donoho View Post
    Graham,
    What dates do you make for these photos? That would help put the swords into context.
    Thanks.
    Based on the uniforms and insignia; I would estimate 1870 to 1900. Military school uniforms did not really change until West Point went with the 'dress gray' version of the M1895 officers dress uniform.
    If the school can be identified it will help with dating, but there were over 300 military schools in the US and many private and public schools had military programs. The two blue uniform cadets have not been IDed yet. I have added photos of VMI cadets with bone grip swords that I think are 1870-80's, but could be earlier.
    There is a cadet sword thread, that may be of interest.
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  22. #172
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    Thanks!
    Tom Donoho

  23. #173
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    Did you see these lovlies on feeBay?

    Recently I pick up these cuties from feeBay and am presenting them to you with photos more detailed than when I bought them. After close examination, this pair have some interesting features. But before I go into ad nauseam detail, I though my fellow forum members may want to jump in with an off the cuff opinion.
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    Last edited by T. Graham; 04-21-2014 at 07:27 AM. Reason: grammer

  24. #174
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    I am glad you scooped those and that we didn't end up bidding against each other. The handles make me think they were assembled pretty late, so to say but still very interesting blade etchings. I was already out of budget before spring.

    I look forward to further analysis.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; kicking myse;f over missing the better eagle pommel deal

  25. #175
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    Interesting and very nice. Enjoy!
    Tom Donoho

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