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Thread: Students, friends and my test cut at Toyama Ryu dojo

  1. #1

    Students, friends and my test cut at Toyama Ryu dojo



    Students' test cut first. I provided the miao dao they used, which was super sharp (good for tatami) but couldn't withstand hard-plastic bottles cutting without the edge rolling, not to mention hitting pork bone. Nevertheless, here they are:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8LgtdnQt8Q
    Taku, first used his Paul Chen side sword that was sharpened to withstand cutting hard objects (battle-sharp). Then he switched to the Miao dao and everything goes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bcic4Wmpro
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM_8IOFK-5Q
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFDkxX3Blzw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxTkN9Yixag
    His katana was cold steel 88k that was very sharp, and the Chinese jian was only battle-sharp, then katana again.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kQqlfIcup8
    Dung used his battle-sharp huanuo willow leaf sword. His vertical cut later switched to the miao dao.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4FxaTaRMF8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH_WOUM0J9I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93w87TEYD00
    These were my entry level student. The swords they used were good for tatami.

    My friends' test cut videos:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em0wPrTYB1U
    His katana was sharp for tatami.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPOFVa9QIVo
    His huge bagua sword was totally blunt. Then he switched to a tatami-sharp katana.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHqGLGY0vA
    My friend's ching dao was battle-sharp. Then he switched to the super-sharp Miao dao.

    And finally, my video of test cut.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIj_PD0BrfM
    Deva Slayer was a battle sword, thus it was not meant to be tatami-sharp. I included EVERY failure in the video for reference. And the last vertical cut, I did it with the super sharp miao dao..... it cut into the dry double roll mat beneath the 3 mats I severed. It shows how important sharpness meant to tatami cutting. However, cutting pork arm and newspapers roll were not so sensitive on sharpness. Even the blunt bagua dao sword had cut newspapers roll successfully before. Pork arm and newspapers roll, on the other hand, required a lot more power generation and blade alignment then sharpness than tatami cutting (as one can see how well Taku did with the miao dao, while he couldn't cut newspapers rolls as good), which I value more for being realistic to historical battle usage.
    Last edited by Lance Chan; 04-27-2011 at 02:32 AM.
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  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Here is the blade of Deva Slayer. Note the appleseed edge by the distortion of light reflection.


    And here is the blade of the miao dao. Note the rolled edge from cutting plastic bottles.
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    I don't want to be a bummer, but I find most of these videos a bit frightening. I don't like how these students are just swinging wildly at the mats with little control.

  5. #5
    Not every martial arts style is the Japanese tatami-cutting style that emphasis on minimum power output. Style like Chinese Dadao are of totally another thing.

    We don't stop our blade like those Iaido does. That's true. In sparring and historical combat, it was these moves that break the opponent's blade.
    Realistic Sparring Weapons - Free sparring with the historical arsenal
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  6. #6
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    No way that is a real Toyama Ryu dojo!!! What is the name of the dojo? Who is the Sensei? Does he know you did this and posted it?
    "virtute et armis"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Chan View Post
    In sparring and historical combat, it was these moves that break the opponent's blade.

    LOL... or broke your own blade.....
    "virtute et armis"

  8. #8
    http://www.hksword.com

    Their place is open for rental practice.
    Realistic Sparring Weapons - Free sparring with the historical arsenal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Chan View Post
    http://www.hksword.com

    Their place is open for rental practice.
    Well you should not use "Toyama Ryu" ANYWHERE in your posting. Listing it in your post as you did implies that you are part of the Toyama Ryu dojo or that the Toyama Ryu dojo is somehow condoning what ever it was you think you were doing. I do not think anyone who studies Toyama Ryu Batto Jitsu would want to have their art associated with your display. I suggest you edit the "Toyama Ryu" out of your posting.

    Clearly the use of "at Toyama Ryu Dojo" was unnessisary unless it was meant to lend some level of credibility to what it was you were doing.
    Last edited by StephenF; 05-25-2011 at 11:27 PM.
    "virtute et armis"

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    I dont even know what to say to those videos
    'Spectemur agendo'

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    I know it's been a while since anyone got jumped on SFI, but isn't this a bit much?

    He clarified they were using the space. It's a heck of a stretch to take the mention that he's trying to attach himself in any way, or suggest he was doing Toyama ryu or representing their art in any way whatsoever. Was there any doubt? His post from the 29th out right states he isn't doing Japanese sword work. Drama for the sake of drama?

  12. #12
    Not to mention that he's using such weapons as the miao dao, ching dao, jian and willow leaf sword.

  13. #13
    Just as a compare. The same sword that didn't do too good on tatami due to the relatively stout edge, turned 2 free hanging pork arms into 4 pieces with 1 cut done with the same technique I applied on tatami.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMuIp...&feature=share

    And on the other hand, the sword that did very good on tatami, had its edge nicked on the pork arm despite the cut was done beautifully (in a Chinese cutting style). The edge was too sharp/thin to sustain the more realistic target. This guy is currently my student for Chinese style and before that, he was a Toyama Ryu practitioner and had won the local championship of entry level tameshigiri held by Hong Kong Toyama Ryu back in 2010.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASsRO...&feature=share
    Last edited by Lance Chan; 05-25-2011 at 09:02 AM.
    Realistic Sparring Weapons - Free sparring with the historical arsenal
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    Exclamation Moderator's note



    Before more of a pig pile ensues, please take observations of "correctness" to messaging or email.

    No one is required to read through and respond to these. I read the threads because I am expected to and if there is a question of how another forumite is posting, please do not play cop. There is a report post function, there are moderators.

    When situations such as this develop further, my solution is to line up everyone and walk down the line with a rubber hand.

    Stephen, I can understand....but? Jonathan, not entirely uncalled for but misdirected as public chagrin of another's. Others? Well, take a step back unless you want to post of your own merits and faults. This was not posted in the JSA section.

    Videos? Well, the way of the world these days. Some are educational and many are simply a trail to contention. Youtube and other venues hosting them have a means to leave comments. Take advantage of that. I would love to see an anything goes subforum with a disclaimer for participating
    but it is unlikely we will see such. Blogs and personal/social pages are easily linked to one's own space for rebuttals and presentations of all types.

    Lance? What to say? Perhaps one of the earliest proponents of video showcasing here and I can only hope it is not just advertising. I don't think that it is but you might want to remove the retail link in your signature ("but everyone else gets to" really not). Any can still put such a link in their own profile. Clarification of the setting at the start might have staid some of the concerns.


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    Glen, your moderation has killed this forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee James Bray View Post
    Glen, your moderation has killed this forum.
    Your input would seem to disagree with your own findings.

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    'Everything in moderation' - Socrates
    'Spectemur agendo'

    Good advice is worth the time and money is saves you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    Your input would seem to disagree with your own findings.
    If you consider that input as constructive to the forum then I rest my case.
    The one certainty is that I will be gone soon, and in going, so will a legion of ghosts.
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  19. #19
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    Boys and their toys eh? Looks like fun. That's quite a surplus of Tatami.

    Which is the Chinese Style you study/Teach Lance? Spent a while in Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut, did a little Dao, Dao curriculum was rather light on, seems like you guys like to get dirty.
    Know the length of your...

  20. #20
    Sorry to Glen and Stephen, I was not very clear on the first post and caused such troubles. The post was made in a rush to share the videos and was not clear in disclosing the details. I apologize.

    J.Jarman, I study Tai Chi and a style of Da Dao. That's why there were emphasize on power generation and even techniques of breaking opponent's weapon with the spine of the sword. That was how Da Dao broke Gunto in WWII. I didn't study the "form", though, focusing on application. If you want to check out how the form looks like, I think this guy's performance was VERY good, including the "sword breaking move" done so fluidly with the back of the blade.

    http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/2HgQqGELvq8/
    Last edited by Lance Chan; 05-26-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  21. #21
    These photos illustrated the damages of the 2 tatami-sharp swords (a katana and a wakizashi) after participating in cutting pork arms.



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