Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 45 of 45

Thread: Problem with Bladesmith

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    12,209
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Timp View Post
    No disrespect Glen, but I think as Nick stated the reason he is posting here is it sounds as though he has exhausted pretty much all of his options. I am definitely not for outing a blademaker publicly, however If something shady wasn't going on, I would think that John would've replied immediately either via PM or e-mail before the thread took a bad turn. The thread did not start as a public outing, just a cry for help.

    I think it important we have the right to know if a particular blademaker is not living up to his end of a sale as I myself would definitely have reservations with making a purchase from John at this point. I do understand that life does have its ups and downs, however that does not excuse John's failure to either deliver the goods or the money back after 2 years.

    If he did in fact sell the blade to another forumite and kept the money to himself rather then funding Nick's refund, this is fraudulent and needs to be addressed.

    This is all I am going to say in the matter, just my 2 cents.
    So you would rather make some public assumptions regarding a matter you are not personally involved with.

    Cool, way to go. That speaks volumes regarding threads just like this one.

    In the meantime, I have sent some fairly available information to Nick personally and without assumption but perhaps helpful with some facts

    It is as if John fell from the skies here as some angel of mercy and is now to be persecuted to the point of raising a cross for crucifixion. Further, that SFI will be his courtroom and readers here a jury with too few of the actual facts (no more than half of them. Don't you think?). Not to mention that John is only to be found here at SFI? Get real. Really.

    With half of this (US) country pretty much shut down this evening, I'd say maybe those in authority here might be busy. My thoughts are just mine and not at all policy and if I were not concerned with everyone's best interests, I wouldn't have bothered to reply at all and certainly not now done a little (easy) legwork for another privately.

    Why stop at SFI if pleas in the ether really seem like a solution?

    Cheers

    Understanding other positions but not at all agreeing

    GC

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    North East USA
    Posts
    3,086
    Blog Entries
    1
    Gentlemen,

    This thread has pretty much runs it's course. Hopefully a positive resolution will be reached.
    mark@swordforum.com

    ~ Hostem Hastarum Cuspidibus Salutemus ~

    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't."
    Benjamin Franklin

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    So you would rather make some public assumptions regarding a matter you are not personally involved with.

    Cool, way to go. That speaks volumes regarding threads just like this one.

    In the meantime, I have sent some fairly available information to Nick personally and without assumption but perhaps helpful with some facts

    It is as if John fell from the skies here as some angel of mercy and is now to be persecuted to the point of raising a cross for crucifixion. Further, that SFI will be his courtroom and readers here a jury with too few of the actual facts (no more than half of them. Don't you think?). Not to mention that John is only to be found here at SFI? Get real. Really.

    With half of this (US) country pretty much shut down this evening, I'd say maybe those in authority here might be busy. My thoughts are just mine and not at all policy and if I were not concerned with everyone's best interests, I wouldn't have bothered to reply at all and certainly not now done a little (easy) legwork for another privately.

    Why stop at SFI if pleas in the ether really seem like a solution?

    Cheers

    Understanding other positions but not at all agreeing

    GC
    Pleas in the ether? This forum is viewed by many, which is why the op posted here in the first place. Are we not allowed to review vendors and manufacturers here? If the op had posted something negative about some random chinese forge would we be having this discussion, or is it only because its John?

    I had no idea i had no right to an opinion here at SFI. There was no assumption or public attack made against John by me. However thank you for the rather rude followup and attack against my post, which I do not think was out of line in the slightest. Reread my post. I stated "If John had indeed sold the sword, meaning obviously I that may not be the case", and yes, I am not personally invested in this matter, however I am a sword buyer and therefore scenerios such as these concern me and being a member here I believe and am entitled to my opinion.

    I am done and Iam guessing the thread will most likely be locked after this post.
    Last edited by A. Timp; 10-29-2012 at 05:06 PM.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    12,209
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Timp View Post
    Wow Glen, I had no idea i had no right to an opinion here at SFI. There was no assumption or public attack made against John by me. However thank you for the rather rude followup and attack against my post, which I do not think was out of line in the slightest. Reread my post. I stated "If John had indeed sold the sword, meaning obviously I that may not be the case", and yes, I am not personally invested in this matter, however I am a sword buyer and therefore scenerios such as these concern me and being a member here I believe and am entitled to my opinion.

    I am done and Iam guessing the thread will most likely be locked after this post.
    I was hardly being rude, nor denying your right to prove exactly what my reply outlined. Wasn't your post I replied to addressed to me? As is this one now quoted? You are welcome to be offended, as I should be now, right? I am not and might rather be amused, which you would probably read as being even more rude. Really not so and as someone involved with several boards and venues since the mid 1990s, trying to help those that may be salvageable in life.

    You have made assumptions about the issue at hand and presume yourself my thoughts an attack rather than looking at (pointing to) the history of threads such as this on SFI and other boards. What I am still getting at, and not singling you out as an individual is that SFI is not meant to be a venue for resolution in this manner.

    Spread the joy across all the boards you can find and maybe that will help as well. Start with Don Fogg's.

    You want to mediate a resolution between John and Nick. Hmmmm, maybe contact John?

    Cheers

    GC

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    12,209
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Timp View Post
    Pleas in the ether? This forum is viewed by many, which is why the op posted here in the first place. Are we not allowed to review vendors and manufacturers here? If the op had posted something negative about some random chinese forge would we be having this discussion, or is it only because its John?

    I had no idea i had no right to an opinion here at SFI. There was no assumption or public attack made against John by me. However thank you for the rather rude followup and attack against my post, which I do not think was out of line in the slightest. Reread my post. I stated "If John had indeed sold the sword, meaning obviously I that may not be the case", and yes, I am not personally invested in this matter, however I am a sword buyer and therefore scenerios such as these concern me and being a member here I believe and am entitled to my opinion.

    I am done and Iam guessing the thread will most likely be locked after this post.
    Should I reply again, or do yo plan on more edititing?

  6. #31
    I wouldn't dare my lord.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    12,209
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Timp View Post
    Pleas in the ether? This forum is viewed by many, which is why the op posted here in the first place. Are we not allowed to review vendors and manufacturers here? If the op had posted something negative about some random chinese forge would we be having this discussion, or is it only because its John?
    Oh, ok then. If we back up a few posts, you will see Nick says he posted here because this is where he found John. Not that
    This forum is viewed by many, which is why the op posted here in the first place.
    What else should we pick apart and parse?

    Of course, if we don't do this on the phone, or give people a chance to clarify their responses and how others read them, there is bound to be some confusion.

    Cheers

    GC

    A last ps on my own part, it is a full moon (no excuse, right?) a heck of a storm on the east us here and really, my thoughts meant in the ionterests of all, not one (patron or maker)

  8. #33
    Glen, perhaps you and others like you are the reason many do not feel welcome here at SFI, your tone comes off as eilitest. I had no intention of offending anyone or trying to publicly oust Mr. Smith, I was merely posting as I was concerned as a member and sword buyer. I had no idea my post would open up a bag of worms as it has, but I immediately regret it.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    North East USA
    Posts
    3,086
    Blog Entries
    1
    Glen, you seriously need to ratchet it back a bit. Everybody here is trying to work toward some sort of resolution so be civil and gentlemanly.
    mark@swordforum.com

    ~ Hostem Hastarum Cuspidibus Salutemus ~

    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't."
    Benjamin Franklin

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    502
    Ah, Glen. You truly are a piece of work.

    Regarding this smith, I had the same problem.
    We agreed a trade and I was promised a blade within a few months.
    A blade was ready after several months and John sent me some pictures. A short time after that, I saw the blade for sale on the forum where John moderated. I contacted him and he said he had problems and that he would make me another blade...
    Another month or two go by with no word. I contact him and find out he didn't manage to sell the blade and so we arrange to ship it to me.
    Six months later, still no sword, and similar excuses to Nick above - can't afford postage, can he send to China, the blade will be confiscated, etc, etc.
    Eventually it was sent and I received it. A very nice blade but I wouldn't deal with him again.

    When he tried to sell "my" blade in the classifieds without telling me, that left a very bad taste. That is not good business.
    To see he's done that again beggars belief.

    Best of luck getting your sword, Nick.
    The one certainty is that I will be gone soon, and in going, so will a legion of ghosts.
    - Joe Simpson

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    12,209
    Ah, Glen. You truly are a piece of work.
    True, even to the point of endorsing you. Although you may not know it. Go figure

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    1,067
    Nick and Lee.... thank you for bringing to light a disreputable sword smith and his modus operandi. The fact that the man has logged into his account here indicates he is alive and functioning. His failure to deliver his product as agreed, his abdication of his fiduciary responsibility to communicate with his paying client and by two accounts that he has yet to disprove, committed fraud by selling/attempted to sell the property of others, makes him disreputable and dishonest regardless of the venue the charges were made and unchallenged by the accused. In a court of law, Mr. Smiths lack of response here could be easily construed as a plea of "nolo contendere" and I think that is just the case.

    I think the JSA community should be made aware of the two unhappy and apparently one defrauded customer who have chosen to inform us of Mr. Smiths bad faith business practices and nonfeasance. They have given us all fair warning about doing business with the man.

    Wrong is wrong!
    Last edited by StephenF; 10-30-2012 at 03:28 AM.
    "virtute et armis"

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Here, there...
    Posts
    664
    I can understand what I think Glen's position is. It can't be an easy line. I understand SFI had some issues problems with a 'magical sword' vendor a little while before I got here, so it is important for them to protect themselves. Even when you're right legal problems can be really expensive. We all like and use the site, and want to protect it and keep it available.

    However, this really is the place where we get introduced to a lot of these smiths in the first place. Reviewing swords and the people who make them can be delicate - everybody loves to receive praise, and the forum seems to do a pretty decent job encouraging and showcasing cool stuff. Unfortunately, there have been too many big disappointments, either from well intentioned people working themselves into a corner to the point where they need years to dig themselves out or from dishonest people who's bad decisions finally caught up with them.

    Personally I think it is the community's interest to have some degree of self-policing (with it not becoming a torch-wielding mob), after all a key part of studying and appreciating a sword is actually getting the thing in hand. The cost and the time frame involved in the construction of these lovely things is hard enough to endure without adding in the uncertainty of whether it will actually arrive. As I said, there are a lot of people who's art I'd like to appreciate, but the guys I usually run to always deliver. If I am going to take a chance with someone else, I have to weigh all the factors. One of the appeals of this forum is that it is a great resource and the reviews of not only the product but also the producer can help guide decisions.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    1,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    So you would rather make some public assumptions regarding a matter you are not personally involved with.

    Cool, way to go. That speaks volumes regarding threads just like this one.

    In the meantime, I have sent some fairly available information to Nick personally and without assumption but perhaps helpful with some facts

    It is as if John fell from the skies here as some angel of mercy and is now to be persecuted to the point of raising a cross for crucifixion. Further, that SFI will be his courtroom and readers here a jury with too few of the actual facts (no more than half of them. Don't you think?). Not to mention that John is only to be found here at SFI? Get real. Really.

    With half of this (US) country pretty much shut down this evening, I'd say maybe those in authority here might be busy. My thoughts are just mine and not at all policy and if I were not concerned with everyone's best interests, I wouldn't have bothered to reply at all and certainly not now done a little (easy) legwork for another privately.

    Why stop at SFI if pleas in the ether really seem like a solution?

    Cheers

    Understanding other positions but not at all agreeing

    GC
    Sorry....WRONG!... John W. Smith has chosen to/chooses to solicit business,opinions of his work and even offer the goods of others for sale in these forums and that makes it fair game to discuss his business practices, ethics and complaints thereof here as well. That John has not contacted the defrauded customer nor responded to these public allegations speaks clearly for his business practices and VOLUMES about the man himself.

    Here by the way is what SFI has to say about the last time this dishonorable louse last logged into SFI:

    "Join Date:09-17-2007.Last Activity:10-28-2012 08:02 AM."
    Last edited by StephenF; 10-31-2012 at 04:50 PM. Reason: spelling as usual
    "virtute et armis"

  15. #40
    When I saw this blade (the blade which was made for Nick) on the classifieds forum early this month, it had already been sold. I was sorry for that because I would have bought it had it not been. I thought it was a good price for a very good looking blade. I even PM'd Mr. Smith to compliment him about it, and ask him if he accepts commissions. He responded positively.

    I have bought two blades here on SFI, and am in the process of spending a combined total of more than 11,000$ on them. The goal of my post here is to say that spending thousands of dollars on something you don't even get to handle, sold by someone you don't really know, is risky business.

    One thing that comforted me each time I did commit to a purchase here at SFI, was that the board members always seem to be candid about exposing something they think is not up to snuff regarding the item for sale. So if I was concerned about spending the money on it, all I had to do was wait to see what comments the Forum Family members made here at SFI or at NMB if the item was being sold at both sites. So, I for one am glad that two of Mr. Smith's customers have come forward and reported the bad experiences they have had with him.

    Given that the same scenario has unfolded twice between two different buyers and the same seller/smith, I will not likely risk the money on something he is selling in the future, regardless of what comments Mr. Smith may add to this thread.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Washington
    Posts
    206
    This thread is very disheartening, I have owned a piece made by John and it was actually quite nice. I hope he changes his practices and makes things right, talented smith, not so talented "thief".
    "Remember shop smart, shop 's' mart

  17. #42
    Although I think that this discussion could be considered one sided, the fact that J. Smith has logged into his account within the last week without even acknowledging the disparity of the situation kind of speaks volumes. I'm not here to pass judgement, however with the situation as it is, I believe the OP was in the right of posting here as this situation has been going on for months. Trying to keep things private when one party decides to completely ignore your requests doesn't solve anything, something publicity is what it takes. In any case, I hope there is some positive resolution here.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    12,209
    <snip>the fact that J. Smith has logged into his account within the last week without even acknowledging</snip>
    I suppose that means it is impossible that he logs on to deal with personal correspondence.

    Lee was gracious enough to share his own experience with John in this thread but have you seen him mention it publicly elsewhere? Anywhere else aside from private correspondence? Raised the alarm back then when he had a problem to alert the "public'? He doesn't mention a specific time line and that in and of itself a bit irrelevant. So is sales of items others claim are their's.

    Others responding seem to be a little less gracious in their own opinions and because mine differs so greatly, I certainly don't doubt they feel they are right and I am wrong. Whatever. Third person badgering a person to renounce publicly serves no purpose if they don't care to respond publicly.

    Take a look at Brandon Thell or even Randal Graham and good heavens, even Angus Trim. Don't forget your other favorites that you have raised on a pillory to enact punishment.

    Take a good hard look at why makers would just as soon not frequent the mosh pit that indeed, can be found right here at SFI and has been so more or less since the start. It is the ad hominem back and forth (and I am not really a saint but hardly the core issue) between third person parties that solve little between the persons directly effected in the first place. Too few realize the logical fallacy of these responses instead of looking at the facts and possibilities.

    Cheers

    GC

  19. #44
    Hey Glen, I know what you're saying but you also have to consider that when conducting a business, there are certain civilities most people follow. Whether or not makers choose to partake in the conversation here is up to them, though it would help the situation to a great degree if all he did was come into this thread and address Mr. Stathopoulos and recognize the problem he's having. He is free to "to deal with personal correspondence", but understand that he's also taken someones money and that definitely needs to be rectified as it's not been days or weeks but months.

    I'm not totally sure what you mean by "Too few realize the logical fallacy of these responses instead of looking at the facts and possibilities", I have no reason to doubt what Mr. Stathopoulos is stating, as anyone who purchases anything would be entitled to what they paid for and if said item can't be delivered as promised, a refund. I don't normally like to partake in forum posting as well, as per the analogy of the mosh pit. However, we can see that most options have been extinguished, private messages go unanswered and Mr. Stathopoulos doesn't have any other way of contacting J. Smith. It seems pretty logical being out of options and not being responded to privately that he post here to ask for advice, especially since we can see J.Smith logs on regularly.

    To me if J. Smith would just acknowledge the problem, or reply to Mr. Stathopoulos privately as he should have done before hand it would have alleviated a lot of the tension and anxiety Mr. Stathopoulos had. That is why him logging on here and ignoring the problem is so troubling to me. I was going to link a thread from the SBG forum which illustrated this point to a tee but it's not allowing me to, if you want the URL i can send it to you privately.

    I am sorry to say Glen that your comments really do seem more inclined to cause trouble than to show how we're looking at it from only one vantage. I also wouldn't claim anything is irrelevant as that's falling into the same pitfall you claim everyone else is making. While browsing posts of newly made swords and new commissions are definitely my favorite types of threads, these I feel are equally important to maintain the checks and balances of those conducting business on forums like these.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    North East USA
    Posts
    3,086
    Blog Entries
    1
    ... and with that, this thread is locked. I hope a positive resolution for all parties will be forthcoming. Although this is a caveat emptor environment, please rest assured that SFI will not allow itself to be used as a platform for some users to take advantage of others. 'Nuff said.
    mark@swordforum.com

    ~ Hostem Hastarum Cuspidibus Salutemus ~

    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't."
    Benjamin Franklin

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •