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Thread: what do you all think

  1. #1
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    what do you all think

    not sure where this post should go.
    but, I was talking with a couple friends the other day, who are proponents of carring certain weapons legaly.
    while the 2nd amendment provides for certain things we were discussing the thoughts of wearing swords
    becoming a fashion again. Obviously there would be the necessity of people learning to use then again, but
    the way things are going...it might be a possibility...after all swords never run out of ammunition..
    what do you think?
    Keith L.

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  2. #2
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    A hypothetical impracticality that may simply add to restrictions as a deadly weapon instead of a collectible or sports implement.

    Then break it down to local limitations.

    Cool does not count.

  3. #3
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    "The way things are going"? Is the Gathering upon us?

    I love my swords, but I wouldn't go through the trouble of routinely wearing them out of doors. To start with, modern society isn't exactly designed with the carrying of such things in mind. Getting in and out of cars, traversing doorways, finding seating in cafes and restaurants, generally narrow pedestrian ways, it would be a great inconvenience. Even if carrying such things openly is legal in your state or town, there is nothing to stop someone else from genuinely or even fraudulently claiming to be alarmed by the presence of your sword and calling for law enforcement, and then someone is obligated to come have a chat. More trouble than it is worth.

  4. #4
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    I have been reenacting for over 43 years. USUALLY, if you are in your reenactment gear, people assume you are in a play (or maybe even a reenactor) and pay little or no attention to the weapons as long as you behave yourself. However, back in the '60s, one of our folks was nailed for transporting "stage props" across campus during one of the periodic riots. It cost a lot of money for the bail bond to keep him out of jail, and the legal system was both tedious and expensive until he received his wrist slap. It could have been worse. Context is everything. If you appear to have a good reason to carry these style weapons, folks will generally cut some slack. If people perceive any kind of implied threat, they will call the police, who will normally require a long and tedious explanation at the least. Being civilized means we don't have to bear arms in our daily routine (unless it's your job) but you may as (usually extraordinary) circumstances require.

    Also, Jonathan makes a good point, above, that the physical, architectural and transportation configuration of the 21st century is not "sword friendly." Generally, on the longship, I much prefer an axe; and the few times on our farm when I felt that I needed some extra backup (but short of firearms) I would pack one of my reenactment axes along. In general, swords have an amazing tendency to get in the way; and although you may look very swashbuckling with a rapier or saber, just wait until someone obliviously trips over it or barks their shins on the scabbard.
    Retired civil servant, part time blacksmith, seasonal Viking ship captain.

  5. #5
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    well...as I said itwas just a what if type of thought...after all there have been much dumber things done in the name of fashion....being a bit excentric , but very friendly and relativly harmless, my neighbors got used to my dressing in semi japanese style at home and practicing with boken (sometimes sword) in my backyard ( I had an excellent larger brick patio with a fire pit on one end) I wasnt dumb enough to constently wear a sword or threaten anyone...in such a case my king cobra 357 would have been much more useful.....but once in a while on a summer weekend I would have friends over for a backyard cutting party....some would come in re enactment type clothing, but BBQ and music were the main attraction, some of the neighbors even joined in the fun....drinking was kept to a minimum so blades were put up when the whiskey came out...but it was safe clean fun for all.
    Keith L.

    If I had words to make a day for you
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  6. #6
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    Well, I've learned never to underestimate the power (and capriciousness) of fashion, so you may well be onto something; I just don't think the time, circumstances and practicalities are ripe for a revival of swords as fashion.

    Still, you never know!
    Retired civil servant, part time blacksmith, seasonal Viking ship captain.

  7. #7
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    I would caution against carrying a sword in the public unless you are with a martial arts group or reenacting group. In today's society people are very paranoid about armed civilians. Even if you can carry a sword legally expect to be accosted by the police every block or so until you give up and put the sword back in your car or house. Professionally I can tell you if I came upon you wearing a sword out of the context of martial arts or reenacting I would make sure you had a very unpleasant day. That doesn't have anything to do with my personal feelings about the topic (I for one would love it if we carried swords again) but from a professional safety stand point (I know a guy who was on duty and shot and killed a "swordsman" armed with a machete) it just isn't safe to deal with. Ain't nobody got time for that!
    Chris Covington

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith L. View Post
    ...thoughts of wearing swords becoming a fashion again.
    Realizing that this is a rather old thread, but having little else to do at the moment, I thought I might as well add a bit to the conversation...

    On July 1st, 2014, the law here in Tennessee was changed in such a way that carrying swords, bowie knives, switchblades, etc. is now perfectly legal.

    Used to be that one could not carry a bladed implement that had more than a 4 inch blade. That restriction in now gone. The same is true for any knife that opens by a spring mechanism, inertia, or gravity.

    However, over and above the already-mentioned problems with toting a lengthy piece of steel around with you on a daily basis, and all the inconvenience it can cause, there's another matter to have to deal with:

    And that's that I doubt the average cop, deputy, constable, or other LEO is aware that those items are now legal. And I'd bet a rather large sum of money that Mr. and Mrs. Average don't have even the beginnings of a clue.

    Given that, the only hope I can see at the moment of carrying anything even close to sword-like becoming fashionable again probably lies in the direction of sword canes or sword sticks. Personally, I'd much rather have a couple of feet of sharp steel that nobody knows is there any way, rather than attract a lot of unwanted attention.


    J.
    Read.... think.... re-read.... think some more.... then, and only then, say what's on your mind.

    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals."

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  9. #9
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    The issue remains regarding wearing/carrying/concealing with intent. Be prepared to answer why one is carrying a blade of any type as a weapon.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    The issue remains regarding wearing/carrying/concealing with intent. Be prepared to answer why one is carrying a blade of any type as a weapon.
    That depends on the laws of the jurisdiction you live in. Again, ours here have changed.

    One other thing concerning that law last year.... there was a companion piece that failed. It would have made it legal to openly carry a firearm here without a permit.

    No one here figured it would pass, due to the fact that a TN carry permit is for both open or concealed carry of a handgun... and the state is certainly NOT going to give up any part of a source of revenue if it can help it.

    However... the one area where the legislators might have shot themselves in the foot, so to speak, is that the open carry bill contained language which would have required anyone carrying a blade over 4 inches long to conceal it.

    So... at least here, intent does not carry any legal weight concerning the carrying of "long knives" anymore.

    I should add that this does not mean a person can go waltzing into a school or courtroom with one though. Those "Secure Areas" are still off limits to ANY weapon.
    ( Though there is still some debate over whether or not those "No Firearms" signs that people can post on the door of their business carry any weight for bladed implements. )

    Yeah, I know... Tennessee is an odd place.


    J.
    Read.... think.... re-read.... think some more.... then, and only then, say what's on your mind.

    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals."

    Political Correctness serves no purpose other than as sanctuary for fools and cowards.

  11. #11
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    No one here figured it would pass, due to the fact that a TN carry permit is for both open or concealed carry of a handgun... and the state is certainly NOT going to give up any part of a source of revenue if it can help it.
    However... the one area where the legislators might have shot themselves in the foot, so to speak, is that the open carry bill contained language which would have required anyone carrying a blade over 4 inches long to conceal it.
    My point exactly. Carrying any weapon with intent is restricted. Be prepared to answer why you are doing so.

    The issue remains regarding wearing/carrying/concealing with intent. Be prepared to answer why one is carrying a blade of any type as a weapon.

  12. #12
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    Glen, you're not understanding what I've said here:
    There is no "intent to go armed" with knives/swords here any more.

    Certain places have restrictions on what you can bring into them, but the items themselves are not necessarily restricted. ( courtrooms, schools, airports... these have specific laws written concerning them )

    "July 1, 2014: July 1st is Knife Freedom Day in Tennessee. Knife Rights' repeal of the ban on automatic (switchblade) knives and the carry of knives over four inches in length "with intent to go armed," a vague law subject to abusive interpretation, goes into effect today. Combined with Knife Law Preemption that Knife Rights passed in Tennessee last year, which rendered null and void all local laws more restrictive than state law, this means that all law-abiding citizens of the Volunteer State can now own and carry the knife of their choice."

    The above is from here: http://www.kniferights.org/index.php...d=250&Itemid=1

    And this, when the law was approved back in 2014, gave me a giggle:

    "The bill (SB1771) was approved 75-16 by the House after a brief discussion perhaps highlighted by some Democrats offering offering joking commentary and questions.
    House Democratic Caucus Chairman Mike Turner asked if the bill sponsored by Rep. Vance Dennis, R-Savannah, means anyone can now carry a sword.

    “I suppose you could. It might be a little cumbersome,” he replied.

    House Democratic Leader Craig Fitzhugh of Ripley said he thought “brass knuckles” should have been legalized as well and Rep. Sherry Jones, D-Nashville, noted that, coupled with other bills broadening the right to carry guns, Republicans appear to be preparing for serious events in Tennessee.

    “Are you all expecting the zombie apocalypse or something?… I was just wondering,” she said.

    Her rhetorical question brought no response."


    The entire article is here:
    http://knoxblogs.com/humphreyhill/20...ord-tennessee/

    As you can see, the only real legal trouble you're likely to find here in Tennessee regarding bladed weapons these days comes down to what you do with it, not simply from having or carrying them.

    Like I said, Tennessee is an odd place.


    J.
    Read.... think.... re-read.... think some more.... then, and only then, say what's on your mind.

    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals."

    Political Correctness serves no purpose other than as sanctuary for fools and cowards.

  13. #13
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    Yes, I have read those. What I am saying is that as there is a permit required for weapons, be prepared to show that for caryring a blade for defense. Otherwise no one would need a permit for concealed or open carry of handguns. Carrying a knife or sword with the purpose of self defense falls into the same category. No? Maybe so. The firearm amendment relates loaded weapons in vehicles as an extension of the castle law but not open or concealed in public without a permit.

    I know here in RI I would just get quizzical looks and some laughter for wearing a sword in public The police would chuckle as well and I would be told to keep it at home. The length law here is, as most states, directly linked to intent. MA, with no length limit for anything aside from switchblades (except local). Weapon law is relaxed here in RI but concealed and open carry of handguns restricted.

    There was the fellow in AZ that was carrying a katana in his trench coat playing vigilante, he was more or less left alone. Do you see that being allowed in Tennesee? Kudos to the activists and system for amending TN laws but expect some fine tuning of what they passed as case law evolves.
    Last edited by Glen C.; 06-14-2015 at 09:40 AM.

  14. #14
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    it all depends where you go, Glen. In Vermont, no permit whatsoever is needed for handgun carry - concealed or otherwise (so in plain terms, the 2nd amendment is the permit in that state). In NH, it's perfectly legal to carry all manner of knives that in other jurisdictions are approached from the legal perspective as edged weapons, and that includes automatic knives (aka 'switchblades') - no permit needed - and I know a little about this having personally submitted supporting evidence to the NH legislature in support of Rep. Jenn Coffey's knife law repeal bill, which ended up passing.

    Now let's look at 'intent'. Since we're dealing with edged weapons, intent, within the context of this discussion, will generally be regarded as a criminal matter. The question becomes 'this person is carrying a weapon, therefore do we assume he's carrying the weapon with the intent to commit a criminal act?' Answer: the United States Constitution grants numerous protections for its citizens, including those who are accused of a crime. One of these provisions includes a presumption of innocence—meaning all criminal defendants are innocent until they are proven guilty in a court of law. As a result, the burden of proof, or responsibility for proving the case, lies entirely on the prosecution. So the burden of proof is on whoever is making the charge.
    mark@swordforum.com

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    Yes, I have read those. What I am saying is that as there is a permit required for weapons, be prepared to show that for caryring a blade for defense. Otherwise no one would need a permit for concealed or open carry of handguns. Carrying a knife or sword with the purpose of self defense falls into the same category. No? Maybe so. The firearm amendment relates loaded weapons in vehicles as an extension of the castle law but not open or concealed in public without a permit.
    Well, there is no guessing at what goes on in the minds of our legislators here... However, not all weapons require a permit. Only firearms. And there is a very large distinction made by most folks concerning GUNS, and everything else.

    At one time, bowie knives and sword canes were listed by name in Tn law. Now they aren't. As for the permit issue, money is the reason Tn doesn't have open carry. The committee that killed the open carry bill I mentioned earlier said as much; it'd just cost the state too much to implement the law if it were changed. Nothing new there... money over rights any day, as far as the government is concerned.

    By and large, with the exception of firearms, Tn is becoming very "hands off" regarding weapons and self-defense. As a matter of fact, I see quite a number of people open carrying around here. I don't think anybody even really notices them... and I've never seen or heard of anyone being stopped and asked to show a permit. I guess it's just assumed that they have one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    I know here in RI I would just get quizzical looks and some laughter for wearing a sword in public The police would chuckle as well and I would be told to keep it at home. The length law here is, as most states, directly linked to intent. MA, with no length limit for anything aside from switchblades (except local). Weapon law is relaxed here in RI but concealed and open carry of handguns restricted.
    I'm not sure most here would even notice... You might get a question or two about which ren fair you were headed to ( The big one here is down near Franklin, where a fellow built himself a castle, then decided to put on a ren fair every year... I guess maybe to pay for it all. )

    If the local LEOs stopped you, it would likely be more to inspect your "toys" than for any real legal concerns. Nice cars, guns, knives, or much of anything else appeal to them as well as anyone else. They just have a better excuse for being nosy than most others do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    There was the fellow in AZ that was carrying a katana in his trench coat playing vigilante, he was more or less left alone. Do you see that being allowed in Tennesee? Kudos to the activists and system for amending TN laws but expect some fine tuning of what they passed as case law evolves.
    Man, we have this guy: http://www.tennessean.com/story/news...high/15838221/

    Believe me, compared to ol' Lenny, a yo-yo with a trench coat and a Kat would probably seem like a vacation to some of the cops here.

    As for fine tuning... I've been expecting to see some incident or other event on the local news that would cause just that. But it's been nearly a year now and I haven't seen or heard of any trouble to speak of. No beheadings, no armed robbery with a sword as a primary weapon... not even a minor maiming with a wall hanger.

    I also have expected to see someone try to get the "conceal a blade of more than 4 inches" part of the prior open-carry law passed this year as well. That would effectively kill any chance of someone carrying most swords around... at least without the required trench coat.

    But so far, not a mention of it.

    That's not to say any or all of that isn't on the way... but as of yet, all's well.



    J.
    Last edited by Jamie C.; 06-14-2015 at 10:34 AM. Reason: forgot to mention something
    Read.... think.... re-read.... think some more.... then, and only then, say what's on your mind.

    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals."

    Political Correctness serves no purpose other than as sanctuary for fools and cowards.

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