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Thread: French Model 1804 Naval Cutlass with unusual stamps......

  1. #1

    French Model 1804 Naval Cutlass with unusual stamps......

    Evening All,

    I came across a couple of what I have identified as French Model 1804 Naval Cutlasses, however do not have any of the typical manufacturing stamps /markings.

    In fact the story behind the swords was that they were "Chinese Pirate Swords"??????

    Which may have some merits as the stamps near the ricasso appears to be perhaps Chinese (Kanji???)

    From my limited understanding, the Model 1804 were more in use for the French ground troops and very few issued to the French Navy.

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

    Cheers
    Drew
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Hi Drew,

    There are no French 1804 cutlasses. The first pattern is the 1811 one and is very different from what you have. This is a briquet sabre made sometime in the 19th century usually for use by infantry soldiers. It is based on the French 1816 pattern which was imitated by dozens of other countries, but I do not recognize the stamps.

  3. #3

    Cool

    Hi Max,

    Firstly thank you for your reply!

    There were a number of "googling" references/hits when I first attempted to ID this sword:

    http://www.icollector.com/FRENCH-MOD...RKED_i20183636

    http://operatorchan.org/g/res/14708+50.html

    http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16788

    All seems to match my one and further allured to a French "Model 1804 Naval Cutlass"..................I guess the most obvious question would be - where did the "1804" confusion come from if you are stating that no French cutlasses existed? Or was it just my use of incorrect terminology and calling it a "cutlass" rather than referring to it as a briquet/sabre???

    There is also an interesting thread on a similar sword by Morgan Butler, with comparisons to the 1816 pattern (mine would certainly matches Morgan's unknown one, however with unknown stamps):

    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...CO-sword/page2

    The stamps appear IMHO to have an "Asian" appearance to them - if imitated by dozen of other countries then perhaps they were used by Chinese Pirates?

    Finally, any ideas over what period were these "imitations" produced?

    Thanks

    Regards,
    Drew

    BTW - the blade length is ~23"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
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    Hello Drew,

    Well I guess you learn something everyday. I wasn't aware that this model existed, but yours is not one I am afraid. Yours likely dates from after 1815 because of the number of ridges on the grip.

    Briquets were produced from the early 1800s up to the 1980s and maybe beyond.

  5. #5
    Is there any chance that is Arabic? Egypt used French style briquets in the 19th century.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Max C. View Post
    Hello Drew,

    Yours likely dates from after 1815 because of the number of ridges on the grip.
    Hi Max,

    Sounds like the number of "ridges" relates to certain periods - is this correct?

    Is there a guide or reference on this?

    Thanking you.

    Cheers
    Drew

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by J.G. Hopkins View Post
    Is there any chance that is Arabic? Egypt used French style briquets in the 19th century.
    Good point!

    As the stamps are fairly "decorative" could possibly be Arabic..............thanks for the clue!


    Regards
    Drew

  8. #8
    I believe it's a Turkish briquette and one of the blade markings is a Tuğra, the stamp of the Sultan of Turkey .
    Last edited by Michael.H; 06-13-2017 at 10:15 PM.

  9. #9
    Hi Michael,

    I believe you are "spot on" - mystery solved

    Googling for Tugra stamps on swords:

    http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.11930.html

    (Looks like the Tugra stamp was reversed - perhaps the photo was inverted?)

    Another example with the "other" stamp, which now appears to be a more decorative Tugra:

    http://trueantiques.co.uk/photos-ant...-briquet-sword

    Thank you.

    ....and there goes my Chinese Pirate story - corrected and updated to "Turkish Pirates"...

    Regards,

    Drew
    Last edited by Drew Gee; 06-14-2017 at 06:01 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    966
    Hi Drew,

    So the number of ridges on the handle go like this:

    An IX: 36
    An XI: 28
    1816: 21

    Yours would then be more akin to the An XI, but it doesn't mean that it automatically dates from that era.

  11. #11
    Thank you Max - great stuff!

    Cheers
    Drew

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