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Thread: Proof Mark

  1. #1

    Proof Mark

    I have been unable to find what maker used a Proved over W proof mark. Can anyone identify?

    thanks

  2. #2
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    Bill can you post a photo of the mark? The mark could be Wilkinson, not the famous Wilkinson Sword though, as that mark is HW.

  3. #3

    Photo

    Here is a photo.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #4
    Does anyone know the answer?

  5. #5
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    References I have do not show this particular proof disc. I can't remember if this one matches the other Wilkinson. Someone with a sword from this other Wilkinson may be able to confirm if it's the same one. No name or marking on the reverse side of the ricasso?

  6. #6
    The reverse is: Flights Ltd, London, Aldershot, Camberley, and Woolwich.

  7. #7
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    Flights is the retailer/outfitter. This proof disc may not be traceable to the maker.

  8. #8
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    Bill, can you enlighten us as to what pattern of sword this is please.
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 01-17-2018 at 02:30 PM.

  9. #9
    It is a George the V pattern 1897 sword and came with a steel scabbard.

  10. #10
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    The same proof slug is also found to be used by Graves, also of Woolwich. Coincidence most likely but perhaps a cutler with a Woolwich connection?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    Someone with a sword from this other Wilkinson may be able to confirm if it's the same one.
    I have an example of the "other" Wilkinson proof slug, but it is a W in script, rather than the sans serif W shown on Bill's sword (see attachment). Also the "other" Wilkinson (who was not at all related to the Wilkinson Sword family) only used his name on swords he retailed for about a year (1849-1850 or so) before he packed it in due to pressure from Wilkinson Sword, which considered his use of the name a trademark violation.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  12. #12
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    In a post from 2012 Robert W-L states that Flight Ltd were at 90 High Street, Winchester from 1920,( and at the same address previously under F W Flight from 1875), he also refers to the fact they used different discs for swords supplied to other outfitters. I cannot find any sword maker whose surname begins with W, (if indeed that is what the proof disc refers to) that could have made an 1897p, annoyingly that post also shows some good images of a Flights 1897p, but not the proof disc! For what it’s worth, Bezdek p.176 states in his Wilkinson Sword Company entry that they supplied swords to Flights as well as many other outfitters. W for Winchester?

  13. #13
    I really appreciate all the info you all have provided. I may never know who produced the sword but it's still nice. Wished the W was an unknown Wilkinson mark.

  14. #14

    Any ideas on this W...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Whitacre View Post
    I really appreciate all the info you all have provided. I may never know who produced the sword but it's still nice. Wished the W was an unknown Wilkinson mark.
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  15. #15
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    Gary as per the previous posts, it would help greatly if we could see the whole sword, or at least what pattern it is!

  16. #16
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    Gary that's a 20th century Wilkinson marking, China did make copies of swords using this marking too.

  17. #17
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  18. #18
    Any help appreciated, still learning........!

  19. #19
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    Sadly, another poor quality replica.

  20. #20
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    Due to the expense of higher quality swords these swords are being purchased and used by officers. Some are using swords we would consider replicas.

  21. #21
    Thanks, i'll let him know. A friend saw it and was going to buy, so asked my advice. What are the tell tale signs on this? I get asked a lot about RN Swords, as i have my own (verified a true one by Robert LW thankfully).

  22. #22
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    http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/navysword1.jpg Most likely this one or similar other modern version. $359 US.
    Pooley Sword and Crisps & Sons produce modern swords that appear very similar. The grip material looks to be authentic and not plastic. Collectors view "authentic" as not applying to modern made swords though technically they are.
    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 06-03-2019 at 07:32 AM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/navysword1.jpg Most likely this one or similar other modern version. $359 US.
    Pooley Sword and Crisps & Sons produce modern swords that appear very similar. The grip material looks to be authentic and not plastic. Collectors view "authentic" as not applying to modern made swords though technically they are.
    Sorry now i'm confused! So the pictures i sent above; is that a modern Wilkinson (late 20th Century), made in new methods, so not "authentic"? Or is it a complete copy not made by Wilkinson, Windlass or whoever's mark that W is..? I tried to ask Alex at Crisps but they seem to be no longer in business and Robert Pooley is very difficult to get hold of these days too.

  24. #24
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    A complete copy not made by Wilkinson. I believe Windlass, Crisps and Pooley put their name on their swords so none of them made this one.
    Chinese made swords usually added in lightly applied black lettering has "Made in China" on the blade that is easily removed completely with a quick buff.
    If I was to bet it's a made in China copy. You can also tell by the asking price, not too much and not too low so to entice one to take a chance on it being worth more, and you're not out that much if you're wrong.
    The W etched on the blade is imitating a Wilkinson marking and does not represent the name of the maker.
    Modern makers all use this highly reflective plating, not original gold gilt and even Pooley swords are made or have parts made in Pakistan.
    Considering that copies and UK retailed swords are both made in Pakistan it's hard to differentiate. Lower price points have officers buying copies for wear that blurs the line of what a
    modern sword is.
    You mention you have an authentic Wilkinson sword, comparing the swords should easily tell you that it's not a Wilkinson.
    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 06-03-2019 at 12:40 PM.

  25. #25
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    https://www.freeads.co.uk/uk/buy-sel...w#.XPV70NNKj6A
    many retailers claim to MOD specs. Note they do not tell you the makers name. Why not ask them?
    A similar one here: https://www.crownswords.com/royal-naval-officers-sword

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