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Thread: Brirish Silver hilt Naval dirk Sanderson Shefield

  1. #1
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    Brirish Silver hilt Naval dirk Sanderson Shefield

    The best I can figure out these are some type of British Naval dirk. I can find very little on Sanderson, Shefield only small bits that run from early 19th to late 19th. One is marked the other is illegible. Both are marker Broad arrow, over WD, over Crown, over S, over 25, over X. The broad arrow over WD is War Department after 1856, right? The Crown over S inspected Shefield? The 25 is inspector 25, and the X bend test. There are a ton of markings on the obverse including what looks like a Crown over E, Enfield plant ? I cannot find this style anywhere in British regulation arms. Any help would be greatly appreciated. When they were made and what for? Are they issue dirks or daggers? Time frame? Eric
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    Eric; Looks like the Lee-Medford bayonet blade fitted to the handles. I have not a clue---otherwise..... (I think it was the model 1887 or 88 bayonet that looked like that.)

    Dale

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    All I can say is that those look pretty much like standard cutlery hilts. I am suggesting the possibility of domestic rather than military use.
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  4. #4
    Hi Eric

    I completely agree with Dale and Guy.
    LM Bayonet blades remounted.
    Question is why?
    Could be 100 years ago for use in a Gaucho/frontier type scenario or 'more recently'. :-/

    These types of repurposed knives/daggers do turn up quite regularly, but not normally with this sort of blade.
    What worries me is what must have been done to the tang to fit it into that slim hilt! These are heavy blades.
    Have a look at mine, the tang appears to be a slab running straight back into the hilt to the end of the wood grip slabs.
    The holes for the brass rivets are likely as wide as the tang would need to be.
    I'd use a neodinium magnet to see how far the tang runs into the silver hilt.

    EDIT: The blade stamps might hold clues?
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    Last edited by Gene Wilkinson; 04-04-2018 at 01:26 AM.

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    Thanks gentleman excellent work. Cutlery hilts were used extensively in the west after war on bowies but these could be modern, who knows. Thanks a million, Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

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    1888p bayonet blades that are in poor condition in comparison to the added grips. I'd say a later marriage and not period due to the vastly different condition of blade and grip.
    Looks to me like handles from a carving knife sets. The different handles also suggest a later marriage.
    Should be able to remove the handles if you put them in a pot of boiling water to soften the resin.
    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 04-04-2018 at 11:40 AM.

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    Thanks for the tip Will, I will give it a go. I am not much on bayonets or knives for that matter. Solving the mystery, now thats the Cats Meow. Gene they look like such a nice well made piece, such a shame someone defaced them. Eric
    Last edited by Eric Fairbanks; 04-04-2018 at 01:38 PM.
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

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    These larger sized silver and silver plated hilts are commonly found on old Sheffield carving knife, fork & sharpening steel sets, as opposed to the smaller ones fitted to table knives of the period. I'm always suspicious of the Bowie knives that I see with them fitted.

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    I would have to agree Mel and after I get a look inside I will decide if I am skeptical of some or all. Photos to come later but on the road again. Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Fairbanks View Post
    I would have to agree Mel and after I get a look inside I will decide if I am skeptical of some or all. Photos to come later but on the road again. Eric
    If they've been around for a good while they may come apart easily with the aid of some hot water, If they're more recent, the chances are that they've been assembled with epoxy resin and will be more permanent, maybe best left as they are.
    These 1888's were mostly used in the African Boer wars. Here in the U.K. they are not uncommon souvenirs from the period. I've long thought that they are one of the best bayonet designs of the time, both from an aesthetic and a practical point of view. I have seen a few over the years that have been converted, possibly for WW1 trench use but they've always had more substantial hilts than these examples. A friend of mine has a nice Stag hilted one.
    Last edited by Mel H; 04-10-2018 at 08:13 AM.

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    I tend to cringe when I hear "trench knife" referring to converted bayonets. Bayonets have never been converted for trench use when they were in service.
    It is a chargeable offence to alter or destroy property of the King/Queen. The earlier 1888p would be held in reserve and not yet (WW1) sold off to the public.
    Any alterations you see to convert them are to be hunting knives or someone much later bubba'd the bayonet.
    There is no Ross trench knife. Documents state they were sold off under the condition they were rendered impossible to affix to a rifle. These were all sold and described as hunting knives.
    In many cases you will see the sold from service opposing broad arrows on the blade.
    The term trench knife for modified bayonets is used only to increase their perceived value when in reality they never saw trench use in their modified form.

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    Being a Spanish Colonial or American Colonists for that matter sword affectionado I love the repurposed pieces. These Lee-Medfords if I understand correctly began production 1888 or there abouts and I suspect some saw some service in WWI. This would place them quite late for reuse for anything other than 1920 gangsters, back yard Bubba or a farmers sticker for hog killing. The latter being doubtful as I know farmers well and they don't silver hilt a pig knife. While very pretty and the Lee-Medford blade very attractive I can think of very little use for them other than a cheap education on possibilitys or not of Cutlery hilt Bowies. Thanks Gentlemen for you insight and instruction. Someone did a beauty of a job constructing them. Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

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    There are British band swords that utilize the same 1888p blade, usually marked Mole. They look impressive with the brass hilt though smaller than their predecessor.

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    Can you direct me to some with the band brass hilts it is all very interesting. The Lee-Medford bayonets appear to be a very solid durable construction. I can find plenty on bayonets but nothing on band swords. Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

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