Two unique Naval Cutlass to men that served in the 1st Naval Battalion New York

[Richard Schenk]

Oops! A typo on the date on the date of the order for NTS Newport it was 1892, not 1895. It is located in NARA RG 217, Entry 235. Box 125. The Chief of Bureau of Provisions and Clothing ordered Horstmann "furnish and deliver at such place in the Naval Training Station Newport, R.I. as the commanding officer may direct within the time below specified the following class of articles and at the price set opposite each item respectively. ... Class 1, Requisition No. 58 Nov....95 broad swords light as per sample submitted by Horstmann Bros, 40 to be delivered within 15 days of date of contract, the remainder within seventy-five days after date of contract. Unit Price each $2.25 Total $213.75."

I'll have to dig out the refs to the RCS orders - I originally got them from Charlie Pate.

I did not see the Little John Auction. Do you have a link? How much did the 1864 "D" fetch? Good condition?

[GC Roxbury]

I can't find the auction results for little john's but it is now being offered on ebay, it is the same one from the auction: here is the link
https://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Civil-W...8AAOSwnwpfPGPF

[Richard Schenk]

Thanks. Pretty sorry state of preservation. i doubt the seller is aware there is anything special about this sword and is just dilutional about its value. I won't be bidding on it.

I wish I had picked up the piece from the Morphy sale, but I was pulled away for the live bidding segment. I has put in presale bid but it fell short. I doubted either the sales folks at Morphy or the likely bidders were aware their sword was a rare variant, so I lowballed the bid - oh well...

[GC Roxbury]

I located the original auction. It sold for 240.00

https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-Mi...ation/55449233

[Paul G.]

Gentlemen.. What are your thoughts on this grip on a post war Ames 1861 ? I count 17 wire wraps.

[GC Roxbury]

I'm guessing you are calling it post war was because it is completing devoid of marks. I have had and have seen many completely unmarked 1861's that I believe were the ones that they advertised in their 1881 Ames Sword Company catalog. My 1861 cutlasses have 18 wraps vice 17? Sure its not a re-wrap?

[Richard Schenk]

Well this is embarrassing. I've been repeating the number 19 so long, and actually going back and counting them shows it may not always be right. Paul shows one with apparently 17 turns. I looked over mine and found what seems to be 17,18, and 19 turns.



Another photo of the 17-turn wire grip.

[GC Roxbury]

So not an exact science when it came to wrapping the grips! Will have to check some more of mine.

[Eric Fairbanks]

Richard and Skipper a most interesting and excellent thread. Eric

[Paul G.]

Correct No manufacturers or naval markings But interestingly it has several hand stamped marks IDed to the USS Olympia. To me some look spurious but some definitely look right. I might have posted this sword before but cant remember. I will post pics of the markings. Great thread!

[Will Mathieson]

I had previously posted this cutlass:
http://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showth...will+mathieson
serial number 14, can this place the cutlass to a particular ship? It appears to be one of the first 600 with a later blade.

[Richard Schenk]

I'm guessing you are calling it post war was because it is completing devoid of marks. I have had and have seen many completely unmarked 1861's that I believe were the ones that they advertised in their 1881 Ames Sword Company catalog. My 1861 cutlasses have 18 wraps vice 17? Sure its not a re-wrap?

The 1880s Ames catalog illustration of the M1861 cutlass appear to show narrow bands as found on CW-vintage swords, not the broad bands of the late-date examples. Wonder when they changed? The 1882 catalog illustration is number 540. In 1902 the Revenue Marine Service ordered 73 "Model 540" cutlasses, thus showing Ames was still using that designation for the M1861 cutlass.

[Richard Schenk]

Jerry, congrats on the great article on NY cutlasses in this month's "Man-at Arms" magazine. Like mentioned before, most collectors are totally in the dark on post-CW M1861 cutlasses. Hopefully your article will raise the awareness and interest in these rare birds.

[GC Roxbury]

Jerry, congrats on the great article on NY cutlasses in this month's "Man-at Arms" magazine. Like mentioned before, most collectors are totally in the dark on post-CW M1861 cutlasses. Hopefully your article will raise the awareness and interest in these rare birds.

Thank you.