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Thread: Initials on Officers 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword, patent hilt and un fullered blade.

  1. #1
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    Initials on Officers 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword, patent hilt and un fullered blade.

    2nd Lifeguard 18434p dress/undress sword with sharpened un fullered blade 34 1/2" long. Engraved initials that appear to be a reversed G, then H I C but in what order.
    Due to it being a patent hilt the sword should date between 1845 and 1855 approx. Riccaso is etched with Andrews 9 Pall Mall.
    Who is the officer?
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  2. #2
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    Interesting sword. Could you post photo of entire sword?

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    Lovely sword, Will.

  4. #4
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    Will, had a quick trawl through Harts 1847-1868 ( when Andrews disappears ) the only 2LG candidate I can find is John (Ioannes?) G. Carter Hamilton, Cornet -1847, Captain -1854 (Harts 1859, page 165) hope you find him, Ben. Further info John Glencairn Carter Hamilton, 1st Baron Hamilton of Dalzell b.1829 d.1900, plenty online!
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 11-20-2018 at 03:55 AM.

  5. #5
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    Thanks Ben it does seem to be him. I had forgotten the J looking as an I. John Glencairn Carter Hamilton, 1st Baron Hamilton of Dalzell (1829–1900), was a Scottish soldier and politician.

    Hamilton was born in Marseilles, France, the only son of Archibald James Hamilton, 12th of Orbiston (1793–1834), and was educated at Eton College. He served in the 2nd Life Guards, rising to the rank of commissioned cornet in 1847, lieutenant in 1849 and captain in 1854. In 1856 he was appointed major in the Queen’s Own Royal Glasgow and Lower Ward of Lanarkshire Yeomanry Cavalry. Although retiring from the regular Army in 1860, he continued to serve in the Yeomanry until 1885.

    He began his political career in 1857 as Liberal Member of Parliament (MP) for Falkirk Burghs, serving for two years. He later sat for Lanarkshire South in 1868–74 and 1880–86. He also served as a Justice of the Peace, and as Deputy Lieutenant and Vice-Lord Lieutenant for Lanarkshire.

    In 1886, Hamilton was raised to the peerage as Baron Hamilton of Dalzell. He served in William Ewart Gladstone's government as a Lord-in-waiting from 1892 to 1894.

    The Hamiltons made large amounts of money in the nineteenth century, as the lands they held in Lanarkshire were sold for coal exploitation. In the late 1850s and 1860s Hamilton was able to greatly extend his home of Dalzell House, a former tower house outside Motherwell, laying out landscaped grounds at the same time. In 1864 he married Lady Emily Leslie-Melville (died 1882), daughter of David Leslie-Melville, 8th Earl of Leven

  6. #6
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    some photos. I added grip wire matching a small piece found under the pommel.
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  7. #7
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    The "proved" disc on this 2 LG sword is identical (under magnification) to an infantry sword made by Reeves Greaves and dates to the same period. The infantry sword hilt is marked "registered" which predates the type being called the Reeves patent hilt. It appears that Reeves Greaves made swords for Andrews.

  8. #8
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    Awesome sword!

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    Due to it being a patent hilt the sword should date between 1845 and 1855 approx.
    Not quite The construction method didn't start until 1851 at the earliest. It was made into a patent in 1853 and the earliest Wilkinson examples are from 1854. The earliest Reeves examples are from 1851/52.

    Best,
    Matt

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    The "proved" disc on this 2 LG sword is identical (under magnification) to an infantry sword made by Reeves Greaves and dates to the same period. The infantry sword hilt is marked "registered" which predates the type being called the Reeves patent hilt. It appears that Reeves Greaves made swords for Andrews.
    Yes certainly. A few other companies unofficially copied the design, but I would put my money 99% on Reeves. Most Reeves swords were never marked to Reeves, but rather the outfitters instead - yet we know that Reeves were basically the biggest British manufacturer before Mole took their place.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the dating info Matt. I had stepped too far and assumed the year of commission would be the year the sword was purchased which would put the sword pre 1850.
    Can you post the references to the 1851 date for the beginning of patent hilts, I'd like to see and record it. Strange the swords are not found with their scabbards though they were iron.
    Is it possible some of these scabbards were leather? I've never seen a leather scabbard on these pattern swords.

  11. #11
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    Hi Will,
    It's all in my article linked below. The Patent was 1853 and the earliest recorded examples of Reeves' 'registered' tang are 1850:
    http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/antiqu...-sale/1821-92/

    Regards,
    Matt

  12. #12
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    You know Will, this makes me realise that I need to update my article (not least to correct a couple of typos I saw!) - The earliest reference we have to the registered tang is May 1850, but that does not preclude the possibility that it had not been experimented with by Reeves in earlier years. It would be great to include your two examples and if we can pin down more precise dating on those, then maybe we can drag the date earlier than 1850.
    Best,
    Matt

  13. #13
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    Hi Matt and thanks for the link to your article, has some very interesting info in it. What is interesting about the 2nd LG sword is there is no wording describing the hilt design while all others seen have it etched on the blade.

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