Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Help ID Scottish infantry basket hilt sword

  1. #1

    Help ID Scottish infantry basket hilt sword

    Hi long time since I posted but am hoping the forum might be able to help date a Scottish basket hilt sword a relative has recently bought and decipher the markings the blade - see the pics. It looks like it has had an old repair to part of the hilt....

    If anyone can help that would be great. Infantry swords are a bit outside my comfort zone and main interest of 1796 LC officers swords and variations.

    Does anyone also know where I could source a liner for the hilt?

    Many thanks, Ben
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by B Hutchins; 09-08-2019 at 01:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    3,523
    Appears to be a sergeants sword with sold from service opposing broad arrows. I would think Pooley Sword in the UK or William Scully of Montreal can supply liners.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    Appears to be a sergeants sword with sold from service opposing broad arrows. I would think Pooley Sword in the UK or William Scully of Montreal can supply liners.
    Thanks Will, really helpful any idea what the other markings mean? Or a time frame?

    Many thanks, Ben

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    3,523
    The other marks would be inspection markings, the EC, not sure but may be ra egimental marking.

  5. #5
    Any idea which regiment it could be? I'm used to seeing officers swords so could do with all the help i can get! Could E C stand for Edinburgh Castle?


    Thanks , Ben

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    3,523
    I do not know what EC represents. If this was an officers sword it may have regimental etching etc. These pain bladed swords are difficult or cannot be associated to a particular regiment other than a Highland one. No markings on the inside of the basket? Unfortunately no scabbard, sometimes they were marked.
    Appears to have a nice wide blade which displays well. What is the blade width and length?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    947
    The flat bar construction of the basket would indicate late 19th century IMHO. Earlier examples tend to have more rounded lines and thinner bars.

  8. #8
    Hi

    Recently seen on ebay. Same stamp being the EC but i have no further info as to what it means. However at least you know that two exist now.Name:  s-l1600.jpg
Views: 213
Size:  95.9 KBName:  s-l1600 (4).jpg
Views: 217
Size:  96.5 KB

    regards
    Steve
    Last edited by steve oakley; 06-30-2020 at 01:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    390
    Steve, could it be as simple as the London Postal Area ( E C - East Central) as several Cutlers/Outfitters were based there? It doesn’t look to me like an old Regimental marking. Ben
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    5
    Not sure if this helps, The circular of March 23rd 1863 stated that weapons given to soldiers sent to the Ypres cavalry school would be stamped with the letters E.C.. They will also be marked with the year they came into service. Since the 3rd and 4th lancier regiments were created at this time, based on the defunct 1st and 2nd cuirassier regiments, it was decided that their weapons would still bear the letters attributed to the cuirassiers regiments. These weapons were dated 1853 ??.

    The circular of June 17th 1869 stated that briquet saber scabbards and bayonet-saber scabbards will be marked on the leather only.

    Summarizing the situation on March 23rd 1863, gives us the following table :

    to L 1st to 12th infantry regiment or associated workers
    M to O 1st to 3rd chasseurs à pied regiment or associated workers
    P miner's battalion or associated workers
    Q and R 1st and 2nd chasseurs à cheval regiment or associated workers
    S and T 1st and 2nd lancier regiment or associated workers
    U guides regiment or associated workers
    V 3rd lancier regiment or associated workers
    V* 4th lancier regiment or associated workers
    W Gendarmerie
    X to Z 1st to 3rd artillery regiment or associated workers
    I* 13th reserve regiment or associated workers
    II to IX 14th to 21st reserve regiment or associated workers
    A.A. to A.D. 1st to 4th administration companies
    B.E. Armée de l'Escaut or associated workers
    E.C. Ypres cavalry school
    a4th artillery regiment or associated workers


    https://swordsdb.com/SwordsDB_Belgian_Swords_Marks.php
    Erik Middleton

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    3,523
    A British sword with British markings would not apply to Belgian swords. However interesting info that can be used for other swords.

  12. #12
    Ben, Cathy
    A further search of the internet found a antique sword dealer with the same basket hilts. Description listed as "A was well made early to mid 20th Century ceremonial Scottish basket hilted broadsword. Birmingham view (inspection) marks, the blade almost certainly Birmingham made too with its long forte. The Crown over B view mark above "T A" for Territorial Army (1921 onwards). Also marked (stamped) to the blade but with a different die "E C", unofficial marking most likely to be for Edinburgh Castle'

    And another same basket hilt from the same site but with SC stamped on the blade "A well made though manufactured for ceremonial only use, Scottish basket hilted broadsword. Birmingham view (inspection) mark, the blade almost certainly Birmingham made too with its long forte. The Crown over B view mark above "T A" for Territorial Army (1921 onwards). Also marked (stamped) to the blade but with a different die "S C", unofficial marking most likely to be for Stirling Castle."

    If they were ceremonial swords then i wouldn't have thought that there would have been a need to stamp them with a crown over a number in the early to mid 1900's. Whether the dealer is the right track for Edinburgh Castle and Sterling Castle is open to interpretation.

    Alas there were a number of basket hilts made with this stamping or similar it seems.

    regards
    Steve

  13. #13
    possibely pooly swords... robert lathom ?? sorry bad spelling

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    390
    I think I can add a bit more, as by pure coincidence I was kindly give one of these swords today! Blade length is 33”, it weighs just short of 3lbs, and is horribly blade heavy, ceremonial or not it’s probable only use was to dance over! It’s the first basket hilt I’ve owned so not very familiar with them in the flesh. It’s of strong construction but doesn’t feel it’s got much age to it, the leather grip is untouched with the wire intact.You can also hopefully see that the central fuller (on both sides) is poorly made and not symmetrical. What I can say for certain, which echoes the dealers comments that Steve mentioned is that the right hand mark is that of The Birmingham Small Arms Trade Association ( not territorial army). The mark is a crown above B above STA when struck properly (I have two other swords with this mark). The BSTA began in the 1850’s and ended in 1878, so do we have some old Birmingham blades being used to make up these later ‘ceremonial’ swords? Apologies for the inverted pics! Ben.
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 07-18-2020 at 06:50 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    390
    Further to my last, just done a simple search for swords in The Great Hall at Edinburgh Castle, hopefully you can see the E C just below the ricasso on the left hand one. There are several good photos of the many basket hilts in racks on the walls, however those you can see close up do look ‘original’ with old used grips, unlike the ones we’re discussing.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •