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Thread: Spanish? Transitional Rapier/Smallsword

  1. #1
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    Spanish? Transitional Rapier/Smallsword

    Inbound, if everything goes ok. The blade is very pointy.

    Cheers
    GC
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  2. #2
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    Maybe transitional, but I can't see nothing too Spanish in it. Spanish early smallswords had enough room at the ricasso to accommodate the index finger, more than in this example, to hold them in the traditional manner for rapiers.

    The pierced plates could point to a German or Austrian origin. Even these inscriptions with ducal crowns look quite German to me.

    Nice sword, anyway.

    Best,
    Juan J.
    SI, SI
    NO, NON

  3. #3
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    Thanks Juan,

    I see a lot of things that might mark it as a later decorative item but there also seem to be some things looking purposeful, such as the quillion block cross section. The guard plates are cast and another image I had failed to upload the first round shows them more clearly.

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    The hilt seems to comprise of more than just one casting and I hope to determine how hollow the grip is. I'll post some more up close and and some blade characteristics once in hand

    Cheers
    GC

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    Thanks Juan,

    I see a lot of things that might mark it as a later decorative item but there also seem to be some things looking purposeful, such as the quillion block cross section. The guard plates are cast and another image I had failed to upload the first round shows them more clearly.

    The hilt seems to comprise of more than just one casting and I hope to determine how hollow the grip is. I'll post some more up close and and some blade characteristics once in hand

    Cheers
    GC
    I have seen the same general structure with large pas d ane, made in iron, probably for the Spanish market. If cast iron, it is possibly a XIXth century copy for theatrical performances, as cast iron is too brittle for fighting at this period. I also do not like the etchings technic, motive and position.
    As a second thought... it could be some sort of zamac metal, does a magnet stick to it?
    Last edited by Javier Ramos; 10-16-2019 at 08:22 AM.
    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

  5. #5
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    I will hopefully have it in hand tomorrow and will determine whether ferrous or not. I do hope to sound the grip to determine how hollw it might be. As we were seeing cast steel fittings in the 17th century, it becomes a matter I think of weight and construct. Lots of questions hopefully answered once in hand. My scale is just an old fishing scale but should give me an idea of any fencible properties.

    Cheers
    GC

  6. #6
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    Blade looks recently made (or at least recently refurbished - polished, etched and aged).
    Not sure about the hilt

  7. #7
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    So, some first impressions with the sword in hand. No way I would suspect it to be a Victorian or later attempt. The hilt is comprised (as I suspected) as several individual pieces, joined and peened. The castings of the writhen elements actually quite delicate, with the grip sounding as not too hollow a shell. Speaking only to the hilt, the annelets are large enough to treat as a rapier grip. The grip by itself between the ferrules is 3". Photos in hand to follow.

    Now some nitty gritty.

    The weight is considerable at 2.5 pounds (spring fish De-liar scale) eek, right? Well, hold on here, mixed dimensions

    Blade length is at 33" as shown.
    Width at the guard 27 mm
    Thickness at the guard 7 mm
    A very linear forte distal
    Thickness at the pob still 6mm a fighting distance from the guard pob at roughly 4"
    The blade (in my mind) shortened from a blade that was likely about 40" long at its original use
    Thickness at the point 2.5 mm
    The blade has the feel of varnish and the clank of a sword with good spring. Perfectly ovoid lenticular.

    Sorry, no spreadsheet. I judge swords as fencible or not. At a pound more than a light magic spadroon, it is still at the range of what a longer rapier might tip 3 lbs or more. Instantly appraised before I opened the USPS priority box, I was under no allusion it would be a box of air, as felt with an epee. I feel it was a marriage sometime before 1700 but folk are welcome to disagree. For me, as with so many, the questions of its history will always be there. My take is someone wanted a weapon, not a decoration.

    Pictures and more thoughts to come

    Cheers
    GC

  8. #8
    house of swords walters ????

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by william fisher View Post
    house of swords walters ????
    Based on what similar example you might share?

  10. #10
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    Here are some resized images. All fittings are ferrous and imo, steel or iron. The plates do appear cast but I believe I may have mentioned cast steel was coming into vogue by the mid 17th century. I do not think the plates were cast together with the body of the roped guard but joined hot. I have done my best to show sections that were assembled. I have scrubbed a section of the blade and will be taking off the grunge/varnish, whatever that top coat is. You can somewhat see it had been sharp and then somewhat bated at some point. If I return with after photos, that will reinforce my take on a shortened or re-purposed blade. I could guess it might have been from an older broken estoc or rapier but that is just speculation.

    Cheers
    GC
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  11. #11
    per Ivan B. response about blade ?? only guessing from that remark from him !!! bill

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by william fisher View Post
    per Ivan B. response about blade ?? only guessing from that remark from him !!! bill
    From that you get "house of swords walters ????"?

    Ivan wrote

    "Blade looks recently made (or at least recently refurbished - polished, etched and aged).
    Not sure about the hilt"

    What are your thoughts about the sword now? Specifically with the blade pictures added? I'm not really understanding your first reply. Are you referring to The House Of Swords and the US sword type "fakes"?

    Cheers
    GC

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