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Thread: French revolutionary Sabre de Chasseur à Cheval model 1790 for evaluation.

  1. #1
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    French revolutionary Sabre de Chasseur à Cheval model 1790 for evaluation.

    Always suspicious nowadays, I would like to ask your opinion on this rare saber.
    Also as always, it looks very convincing. Do you see any red flags?
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  2. #2
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    Examples with little use and no previous corrosion can present a problem without having them in hand. The screw retaining the drag does not look authentic.
    With the current copies, some being very well executed you would want a known authentic example to compare to.
    It looks to me the pommel has thin sheet brass construction as do the scabbard mounts. The blade tip, the last foot or less looks like it could be too thick being indicative of a copy.
    The brass guard appears thin to me.
    I would need this one in hand to realize whether it's authentic or a good copy. Googling current well made copies may give you a better idea.

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    Actually, I have been looking at this sabre for some time now and am convinced that it’s a copy. The poinçons present don’t even resemble that of François-Georges Bisch for the period 1783-1791.

    Maybe I shouldn’t have asked the question, but wasn’t sure. Now that you point to several question marks about the general shape of the pommel, blade, scabbard and drag, I’m convinced.

    Thanks for your confirmation, Will.
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    Last edited by DirkS; 10-28-2019 at 03:49 PM.

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    The poincons don't look right to me.

  5. #5
    Dirk.

    As you've studied this sabre for awhile you know that the construction of the various components is pretty accurate.The brass guard is as it should be,the grip and windings are correct.The blade is also correct with the shape of the ricasso and the fuller running close to the tip.All in all,very convincing.I am basing my observations on examples in Lhoste & Resek p. 413/414.
    However,I think you have come to the right conclusion;
    The condition is not credible considering it's age and the hard use all surviving examples exibit.
    The poincons are not correct for the model and do not correspond to the spine inscription which is ascribed to c.1800....ref. Lhoste & Buigne p.230...It looks like they had only one stamp and used it twice.....it's not an accurate stamp either

    In my opinion,it's a copy but maybe not a recent one....There were some very accurate copies made of the more desirable french sabres of this period in the 1850's.I think they may be known as Rommel copies.
    Last edited by niall dignan; 10-29-2019 at 07:50 AM.
    Niall Dignan

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    Quote Originally Posted by niall dignan View Post
    In my opinion,it's a copy but maybe not a recent one....There were some very accurate copies made of the more desirable french sabres of this period in the 1850's.I think they may be known as Rommel copies.
    Yes, Romel copies.

    The following excerpt is the concluding paragraph from an article by Michel Pétard in Tradition Magazine about the Sabre the Carabinier. It mentions Romel and situates him between the two world wars. It also mentions that the Romel made copies of the Carabinier sabre are of very high quality, but are undersized.

    As a matter of fact, the same dealer offers a Sabre de Carabinier An IV for 7700 euros. However, it is lighter than it should be, using the Pétard article as reference. Also, the blade is about 7 cm too short, but this cannot be the only cause of the weight difference.

    The dealer had no explanation for the missing weight. I showed him the Pétard paragraph below, but he didn’t comment on the Romel suggestion.

    I didn’t buy the sabre. Too expensive and too many questions remaining.

    That’s already two suspicious sabres from a dealer who has a bad reputation on a French forum when it comes to antique rifles and pistols that he also offers aplenty.
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  7. #7
    Plenty of additional information and pleasant conversation here,but then you probably already know that......How's yer french?.....http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t115...e-sabres-romel
    Niall Dignan

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by niall dignan View Post
    Plenty of additional information and pleasant conversation here,but then you probably already know that......How's yer french?.....http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t115...e-sabres-romel
    Thanks for the compliment, Niall.
    I'm from Belgium (Dutch speaking Flanders) so should be able to read, write and speak French. In practice, it is reading with careful attention, writing very slowly with dictionary and speaking as little as possible and with plenty of mistakes.
    That's the forum I frequent sometimes when looking for French advice about Napoleonic sabres. Thanks for the link, I'll study the thread.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    Thanks for the link, Will. However, I'm afraid of these auctions as I'm not able to examine the details. From afar I can see there are two poinçons, probably Klingenthal, on the ricasso of this sabre and probably also a revolutionary faisceau de licteur poinçon. But again this could also be a sabre with superficially passable falsified poinçons.

    Edit:
    I see the seller is Hermann Historica, a reputed auctioneer. I'll have a look on his site, but it's a pity the scabbard is missing.
    However, when collecting other items in a previous life, there were always a few fakes present within large auctions. Even with reputed dealers. When warned by experts (not me!), honest auctioneers retract questionable items while others don't care.
    Therefore, always ask advice on the forum!
    Last edited by DirkS; 10-31-2019 at 08:03 AM.

  11. #11
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    Copies do tend to be in large and/or old collections. I find asking for more photos helps but then you risk the photos being posted for others and the price may then rise.

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