Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Napoleoinic French Infantry Officer Sabre..

  1. #1

    Napoleoinic French Infantry Officer Sabre..

    Hello All, Happy Holidays.
    I recently received this and am pretty happy with it . Love the broad profile for this style of light officer sword and the scabbard is decent as well. I just thought I would post this for any additional comments or comparisons from others with this type of sword in their collection or experience. I'm assuming it's French though it could be Italian I suppose. There are no markings on this nicely tempered, double fullered blade. The rear quillion is a little different and the 'pommel" has a fluted/faceted style to it. I think the scabbard drag is interesting as well. Perhaps someone could tell me if they have seen similar? Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,153
    Oo, la, la. Looks nice. We need an expert opinion on this one--French or Italian or...? Not an engraved blade so perhaps for an NCO. But that is just a guess. Enjoy, my friend!
    Tom Donoho

  3. #3
    Thanks Thom, It sure feels great in the hand. I'm not an expert on this pattern/style either but I've liked them for awhile. I'm hoping some other members will have experience/reflection about it.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North West US
    Posts
    1,285
    That is smoking hot Morgan, I love these French style sliced melon pommel swords. I have a couple in infantry and a cavalry model. I would love to have one with an Uncle Sam blade. The American etched examples go for a mint. One I have was made in France the others Solingen. Schimelbusch and Boegel seem to be fond of making these. Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,153
    Yes, this style can be found with American swords, not common but it does occur.
    Tom Donoho

  6. #6
    They were popular with American merchant captains and privateers.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    The vast wasteland
    Posts
    665
    Here's a view of my version of this sabre, which has a decoration on the knucklebow that is seldom seen: It's just a flat diamond shape (it's small, but I wonder if it was intended as a surface for the owner's monogram). The more common styles were turned spheres, like yours, and elongated spheres.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,153
    I have seen plenty of turned knuckle guards and flat knuckle guards on French sabers and the sabers of French-influenced countries. It might pay off to consult some examples, books. Peterson's book on American swords shows a very nice silver hilt based on this patter, I believe. This is a good source for pix of this hilt type. It seems there were small differences in knuckle guards, crochets and quillon finials due to the specific service of the officer/NCO and probably the manufacturers as well: https://www.bertrand-malvaux.com/en/...rds-handstraps
    Last edited by T. Donoho; 12-28-2019 at 01:40 PM.
    Tom Donoho

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=T. Donoho;1235965]I have seen plenty of turned knuckle guards and flat knuckle guards on French sabers and the sabers of French-influenced countries. It might pay off to consult some examples, books. Peterson's book on American swords shows a very nice silver hilt based on this patter, I believe. This is a good source for pix of this hilt type. It seems there were small differences in knuckle guards, crochets and quillon finials due to the specific service of the officer/NCO and probably the manufacturers as well: https://www.bertrand-malvaux.com/en/...rds-handstraps[/Q
    Thanks for that link Thom. I was just thinking about it earlier.
    Luckily I have a rather poor condition example to compare it with. The grip is about a half inch longer than this one and it has the "more common/normal" rear quillion on it. This one has an 'acorn finial' or as I think of it ' trumpet and ball quillion.' (which I saw on a "cavalry" version of this pattern.) I assumed it has to do with the manufacturer, or that it was a private purchase job. If it has to do with specific service then I would like to know about that. As for a NCO weapon, it could be. It's a very nice quality blade. I'm not sure if it qualifies for the term 'montmorancy.' I wonder if it was over-cleaned or specifically cleaned to take out what ever engravings there were. Maybe because of either Pre-Revolution or Post Napoleonic sentiments.
    Also, i think that scabbard is interesting.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Annandale, VA
    Posts
    890
    Quote Originally Posted by T. Donoho View Post
    Yes, this style can be found with American swords, not common but it does occur.
    I would love to have one. Charlie Curiton says some early Marine officers carried them. I believe he based this on early paintings of Marine officers showing swords with similar hilts.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,153
    I suspect that differences in quillon finials could be found on pattern swords--a manufacturer's interpretation perhaps. Even without engravings to the blade it could be an officer's saber. I am still amazed that with small-swords we can find wonderfully engraved blades on rather plain hilts and plain blades on better quality hilts--that's just the way it is--and I suspect this could be the case with military sabers and swords. It looks like a nice saber you have there.
    Tom Donoho

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,153
    I, too, have seen American portraits of officers with such swords.
    Tom Donoho

  13. #13
    I am really digging this piece. Took it outside to do some Tai-Chi with. Beautiful! I also really appreciate the rear-quillion. I just realized it's a miniature version of the rear quillion that's on the briquets of Napoleon's Imperial/Old Guard. Here is a pic of one below, for comparison.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  14. #14
    Alas, I'm fairly certain (as everyone else who saw this but was kind enough not to mention) that the scabbard and brass is modern/repro. Oh well.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,153
    Are you saying your saber is a reproduction? I don't know enough about these sabers.
    Tom Donoho

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    939
    Hello Morgan,

    This is a nice côte de melon, quartier d'orange sabre or 1800 type. It isn't clear where the style started, but it seems like it was inspired by presentation sabres made for soldiers and officers in the Consulate era. These sabres are not patterns, rather types as they were never regulation. They are usually associated with the light infantry, while longer ones are associated with light cavalry, much like the British flank officers sabres, but we have enough proof to say that they were carried by many other infantry corps and even the navy.

    I would say that unless you have a specific marking identifying it to another country that this is most likely a French one. The Italians did come up with a similar pattern in 1830, but if you google it you will see that it bears some significant differences.

    Montmorency blades like yours are uncommon, but not unheard of. I would always be careful though to make sure it is not a rehilted 1821, but yours looks ok. As for the engravings, they are often lacking, wither due to over cleaning or simply an officer going for a plain blade.

  17. #17
    Hello Max,
    yes the 1830 Italian NCO sword is rather different. I have thought about picking up one from time to time but never have. I have another 1800 Napoleonic/French example, but it was sadly abused by it's prior owners and I wanted try to get an upgrade. I (like T. Donohoe) don't know enough and I may have jumped the gun, but oh well. . Perhaps it is a 1821 blade. It does have that queer hilt to blade angle that be-speaks a remount. The brass on the scabbard, (especially on the drag/boot) is probably modern. I have seen photos of a few others of the 1800 type with Montmorency blades, so who is to say. Thanks for your feedback.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,153
    Sometimes the overriding concern as we collect is, do we like the sword or not, does it please us all around? That is what ultimately matters to me and perhaps this is because I am a devotee of the small-sword where there is wide latitude for individual swords regarding function, manufacture, and aesthetics. I think this can apply to early patterns of swords and semi-patterns, too.
    Tom Donoho

  19. #19
    Good point Thom. As far as it being an all around sword, it's quite good. Quality blade and actually quite a good scabbard (which might be a 19th century "Romel" reproduction). I think the hilt is definitely original to the Napoleonic wars. It certainly looks better than my other example, which, while totally "genuine" is pretty beat up. My collection has really been running towards 18th and early 19th century infantry officer field swords/sabres for the last couple of years and as you said, there is a wide latitude in style and aesthetics in those.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •