British Bandsman Sword - Tudor Rose motif? I am confused on this one.

[Derek M]

Hello kind forum members.

I hope someone can help me with understanding the reason for use and also of the timeframe/era that the Tudor Rose motif was used for British weaponry?

I specifically am asking the question because I just made a sword purchase today (I am still yet to receive the sword from the U.K.) of a British Bandsman sword that I personally think is quite attractive. The Bandsman short sword does not bear the normally seen royal cypher of the reigning monarch, such as VR, ERII etc.) Instead it has a Tudor Rose on both sides of the hilt in place of where a royal cypher would normally be located.

Also, the blade has a central concave fuller running almost to the tip, but terminating just before the tip of the blade. To me, this type of blade looks 'early era' compared to most later diamond section blades. Does anyone know if this blade is of the very early era type?

Could this Bandsman sword I purchased possibly be one of those prior to the 1824 era? I believe that after 1824 it became mandated that the Bandsman swords carry the royal cypher, but I am not totally sure on this.

Could the Tudor Rose possibly indicate the intended use of the Bandsman sword? such as only for parade use or could this sword still be a regiment issued sword?

Could this Bandsman sword possibly be related to the Yorkshire or Lancashire regiments? (hinting at the Tudor Rose motif again.)

Thank you to anyone who can help educate me on this particular sword, as well as Bandsman swords in general too.

[Will Mathieson]

You have 1856 pattern band sword. One difference is the fullered blade while most have a diamond section shaped blade. I can't recall what the rose signifies, some have the regimental markings stamped into the hilt. My guess would be one or more of the guards regiments.

[Ben Bevan]

Derek, as Will says, not the standard blade for this Mark I Drummers Sword. The only other example of a Regimental device I can find is the ‘strung bugle’ of the Rifles/Light Infantry, so I think it is likely your ‘Tudor Rose’ could well be a specific Regiment and not just decorative.. Otherwise, the hilt conforms to the Mark I, so post 1856, until the Mark II arrived in 1895 with its shorter blade and smooth round grip. Your pattern came with a brass or iron hilt for either drummers or buglers .There is also a fairly rare, curved flat bladed version, pics attached. There is little information on pre-pattern Drummers & Buglers Swords of the early 19th C, ‘Robson’ shows an example with the same brass trefoil hilt, a regimental device (Sappers & Miners), but with a 25.5” blade, circa 1843. Hopefully when your sword arrives you’ll find some markings to help, but in any case a rare find!

[Will Mathieson]

Herte is the rifles iron hilted version by Mole.

[Ben Bevan]

And another ‘strung bugle’.

[Derek M]

Ben,

Interesting information and GREAT photos! Thank you so very much for sharing. Yes, I will certainly share more information regarding the sword when it arrives....hopefully sometime soon. I can only hope that the sword has some regiment markings on the hilt and hopefully too the blade bears some sort of makers touch-mark on the ricasso, hiding on underneath the brass langet.

[Derek M]

Will,

Thank you as well too! for sharing information and an excellent photo of an extremely nice looking iron hilt Bandsman sword. I can only imagine that maybe the iron hilt versions are not that often seen and possibly scarce?