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Thread: Interesting frog to the bayonet.

  1. #1
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    Interesting frog to the bayonet.

    Hello everyone.
    Perhaps I'm not posting a thread on the profile of the forum, since this is still a forum for sword collectors in the first place, but my question relates to the history of ammunition for melee weapons, so don't kick me for that ....
    And so, I have a bayonet for the Czechoslovak Mauser carbine arr. 1924, issued by the Austrian-Romanian company "Redtenbacher" located in the city of Sibiu.
    For this bayonet, I purchased a Romanian frog with an additional ring on the belt attachment blades.
    I was puzzled by this ring and its purpose.
    On the Internet, I found unverified information that this frog is for the bayonets of the Romanian cavalry soldiers.
    Also, the seller from Romania, from whom I bought this frog, also sold it as a cavalry frog and explained that the ring on it was for attaching a flask of water.
    But this version seemed absurd to me, since it is impossible to attach a flask with water to this ring with a bayonet in a sheath.
    In the photographs of Romanian soldiers that I saw on the Internet, different bayonets and trench sheaths were worn in similar frogs, I even saw an Austrian pioneer cleaver of the 1915 model in such a frog.
    At the Romanian positions of the WW2 period near Odessa, my friend unearthed the remains of such a frog with a scabbard from a Czechoslovak bayonet # 24, but nothing was attached to the ring.
    The question to the forum participants is as follows - maybe someone knows the purpose of the ring on the frog's blade?
    And also for what bayonet this frog was intended.
    Here is a photo of a frog and a bayonet:
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by Vladimir Sukhomlinov; 01-15-2021 at 04:58 AM.

  2. #2
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    Photo of a frog with a sheath from a bayonet vz 24, found near Odessa.
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  3. #3
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    Photo of the Romanian cavalry. One of them has a bayonet on his belt for a Mannlicher rifle of the 1895 model of the year in just such a frog, but nothing is attached to the ring.
    Why is this ring? .......
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  4. #4
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    Vladimir,

    I think the ring was used for the attachment of a bayonet/dagger knot. Romanian dress bayonets/daggers had a similar ring attached to their pommel. The pre-war Eickhorn catalog for Rumanien shows such ornate plain and ornate eagle headed sidearms and calls them an, "Offizierdolch / Baioneta Ofitereasca", all worn in a frog. It does not picture the frog but it makes sense for your frog to have such a metal ring since there was no such ring on the field bayonets except for the Austrian NCO M95 with a ring on the pommel.

    I hope this helps.
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  5. #5
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    George, thanks for the answer.
    I don't think the ring was designed to carry a bayonet assembly.
    The fact is that ceremonial daggers in the Romanian army were small in size, the blades were usually 15-16 cm long and 2 cm wide.Frogs with a ring are much larger and are designed to carry bayonets larger than ceremonial daggers.
    As I already wrote, I saw a similar frog made to size for the 1915 Austrian cleaver.
    In addition, in the Romanian army, ordinary soldiers did not wear knots on bayonets, and knots on ceremonial daggers were attached to a bracket located on the head of the handle of such daggers.
    In addition, in one of the books by the Romanian author on Romanian cold steel, I read that ceremonial daggers were ordered to be worn only by officers.
    In support of this, the author refers to two regulations - both 1919 and 1930, that these are officer's daggers.
    Sincerely, Vladimir.

  6. #6
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    Another observation is that the ring is attached to the frog with an inner metal plate through two rivets. I think this method of fastening is designed for some kind of load that the structure should have experienced when fastening something heavy. The thickness of the inner metal mounting plate, according to my friend, who dug out the suspension with the scabbard is -1.5 mm.
    The photo shows the inner part of the ring attachment, which was inside the leather frog.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Last edited by Vladimir Sukhomlinov; 01-15-2021 at 08:00 PM.

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