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Thread: ININ sword marking???

  1. #1

    ININ sword marking???

    Hello, I have a Antique European Hanger probably 1740-1770 with letters ININ or NINI on both sides of the blade but one of the Ns is reversed. Single branch on both sides of the hilt with a thumb ring. Looks like 12S on page 65 in Neumann's Swords & Blades of American Revolution. There is also a marking below the ININ that looks like a Flies head or a turtle or 3 circles with 2 branches going out on both ends (hard to make out), maybe a Crown? Any ideas? I know I seen the ININ marking somewhere before. Thanks, Jim. jjoyce39@aol.com

  2. #2
    I forgot to mention there is a star or dot between each ININ or I*N*I*N. Also 4 dots or Stars before and after the ININ. Thanks, JIM

  3. #3
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    Jim the ININ may be just decoration or Latin. I would need a photo of the other marking to correctly match it. The marking may be listed in 1000 Marks of European Blademakers.
    Your hanger description sounds interesting.

  4. #4
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    I found a similar marking but may not be the same one.
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  5. #5
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    Bibliography 8: Gyngel Dudley S. Hawtrey, Armourers Marks, London

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Joyce View Post
    Hello, I have a Antique European Hanger probably 1740-1770 with letters ININ or NINI on both sides of the blade but one of the Ns is reversed. Single branch on both sides of the hilt with a thumb ring. Looks like 12S on page 65 in Neumann's Swords & Blades of American Revolution. There is also a marking below the ININ that looks like a Flies head or a turtle or 3 circles with 2 branches going out on both ends (hard to make out), maybe a Crown? Any ideas? I know I seen the ININ marking somewhere before. Thanks, Jim. jjoyce39@aol.com
    The letters IN stand for Iesus Nazarenus, i.e. Jesus of Nazareth. These are seen with some frequency on the 17th century blades, and less often on later examples, specifically on blades mounted on smallswords. Photos of your piece would help.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitry Z~G View Post
    The letters IN stand for Iesus Nazarenus, i.e. Jesus of Nazareth. These are seen with some frequency on the 17th century blades, and less often on later examples, specifically on blades mounted on smallswords. Photos of your piece would help.
    It would be interesting to view the whole sword if possible. It looks like what could be a Solingen blade to me. Is the blade sharpened?

    As Dmitri pointed out the I*N*I*N could refer to “ INRI is an acronym of the Latin phrase IESVS·NAZARENVS·REX·IVDÆORVM (Jesus Nazarenus, rex Judæorum), which translates into English as "Jesus Nazarene, King of the Jews." This title appears in the New Testament in the Passion narrative of the Gospel of John (19:19). During Jesus' crucifixion, a Titulus Crucis (Latin for "Title of the Cross") was inscribed in wood and placed above Jesus head. In the context of the Crucifixion, the titulus IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDAEORVM (and its translation), written in three languages (Hebrew, Latin, and Greek), was affixed to the cross. Within Western Christianity, many crucifixes and other depictions of the crucifixion include a stylized plaque or parchment, called a titulus (title), bearing the Latin letters INRI, occasionally carved directly into the cross, and usually just above the head of Jesus. A Christogram is a monogram or combination of letters which forms an abbreviation for the name of Jesus Christ, and is traditionally used as a Christian symbol. Different types of Christograms are associated with the various traditions of Christianity. A monogram is a motif made by overlapping or combining two or more letters or other graphemes to form one symbol.” (source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/INRI)

    Alternatively it could refer to the first two words repeated twice of I.N.D... (In Nomine Dei...): "In the name of the Lord...” which was a common invocation at the time. Some blades have the inscription IN MINI which is short for IN NOMINE DOMINI (“In the Lord’s Name).
    Last edited by Magnus K; 03-28-2021 at 02:38 PM.

  8. #8
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    The blade is 30 inches long and the whole sword is 36 inches long

  9. #9
    I had a feeling the hilt is from the 1720s-1770s with the blade being older. Reconstituted Weapon by some Armorer

  10. #10
    Dmitry Z-G & Magnus K I posted more pics (mainly the hilt) of the sword as you requested, so I'm waiting on your further professional opinion. Thanks, Jim

  11. #11
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    Interesting 1751 pattern hilt usually on short curved blade with small upper fuller. Perhaps a rehilt, heavy hilt for a straight blade.
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  12. #12
    I've noticed hilts of this type with the thumb ring come mainly from German swords or from swords of that geographical area.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Joyce View Post
    Dmitry Z-G & Magnus K I posted more pics (mainly the hilt) of the sword as you requested, so I'm waiting on your further professional opinion. Thanks, Jim
    Hi Jim, I’m not a professional but a mere collector and history enthusiast. I think the blade looks like 17thC Solingen and the inscription probably refers to IN nomine domiNI (In God’s Name), forwards and backwards. The hilt looks like 18thC (or end 17thC). I have seen a felddegen with brass or pewter grip posted somewhere before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Fairbanks View Post
    Interesting 1751 pattern hilt usually on short curved blade with small upper fuller. Perhaps a rehilt, heavy hilt for a straight blade.
    Yes Eric, it seems British in that it has symmetric side bars in the way that mortuary swords do. But note that it also has a thumb ring, and the blade makes it longer than the hangers. Seems more like a proper infantry sword. Could it be an improvised American Revolutionary weapon?

  15. #15
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    Magnus, I don’t doubt it German, the Prussians used hangers in this style until 1830 or so I believe with loose spirals on grips. While everyone copied someone sometime, this style was It seems introduced by the British in the 1742 and 1751 patterns that aren't patterns at all but everything has to be called something. This hilt has been found here with and without thumb ring. Both British and Prussian hangers of this sort seem to follow form the American and examples in Mexico more inconsistent blade pairing.
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

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