(1) when looking for these type of sabers there are 2 types of them one being british m-1796 and the german one m-1811 generly speaking 2) is there a general name for these sabers or refer to them by their model ? when looking for one of them ? 3) and also the german saber is marked with a mark of a ruler like W but with the other countries like saxon or austria are they with the rulers mark on them like the prussian one also ? thanks for any help you can give 4) also are there any good web site that tell about there sabers ? bill
As far as I'm aware the German LC sword is the 1811 Blucher. The British LC sword is the 1796 pattern. I find earlier German 1811's unmarked though I've seen 1831 as the earliest i've seen that is marked. Try Matt Easton's YouTube videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw2bv-lBP8
thanks Will for your reply i guess form now on when i start looking for these type of swords i have to use either m1796 british or m1811 german not the word "blucher" also i forgot i got a british i guess its massive with a massive curved blade larger than the m1811 one i got then to me it seem like its not hard to tell the german one from the british one thanks for your help .... the light went on bill
thanks Wiil and Dale a lot of good info there on those type of swords after i responded to Will i went in to Matts web site wow a overload of info on those swords now i dont know which one i got lol but i do now that the german one i got is a model 1884 one and the other one may not be british at all i will sure go into that web site and study more on those swords seems like to me there are all over the place to identify them thanks guys for ALL that info..... bill
hopefully one last question about blucher type swords ... on the blucher swords marker with the W and a 07 or W an a 14 when looking for these type of swords in this era what is the correct model 1884 or 1811 Matt Eastmen i believe he said they were 1884 ? so which one is the correct M - ???? if i am going on ebay and loking for this type i would call it the german m- ???? thanks bill hopefully no more questions
Will: The model 1848, was the issue artillery saber, until 1894, when the Prussians shortened them to 89 CM, and deleted the lower ring. The unaltered Blüchers and M 48 sabers became the "Artillerie Säbel--alter Art, the shortened became the Artillerie Säbel neurer Art. They did not use a year designation for these modifications. There is no such thing as Matt describes, and there is no such thing as a Mod 1873. There are 1811 style Sabers that are made as late as 1884, for certain Garde units, but they had no year designation. All of the late 19th and early 20th Century dated sabers are n/A.
Bill, More empathetic than informative. I found these swords to be very complex to exactly unravel. What seemed to me as a British sword collector to be a straightforward search for a Pattern 1796 Ordnance Sword, became a learning journey around the realization that there were a lot of variations that spanned many years and involved several places of origin and countries of purchase. What I wound up with (see photo) was from top to bottom, An early P-1811 (Blucher) Sword, An Ordnance P-1796 Sword, and a sword that looks like a P-1796, but was likely made in Saxony or Prussia for export at some point in the first third of the 19th century.
Best, Johnny
thanks Charlie for the info it seems like what i have been finding also , it seems like it to is that the p-1796 british saber is a bit larger and it has More curved slicing blade than the blucher one thanks for the info....bill
It is worth noting a wider context of the P1796 and P1811 swords. Apart from UK and German kingdoms there was good few other states that used very similar swords. In my opinion P1796 is only UK produced sword (for example Dutch had a a batch of almost identical copies of P1796 that were produced in Solingen). When Blucher is only P1811 with some variation with hilts depending on German Kingdom it was used in. For example I have this sword with P1796 blade by Thomas Bate and P1796 hilt (grip looks to have been repaired on some stage of sword's service use). The scabbard looks to to be typical P1811 scabbard but markings do not seem to be of any German states which may mean it was produced for some other country's use.
To muddy the already muddy waters a bit further, the (presumably) Crown/4 on Davids sword is a frequently encountered East India Company acceptance/ownership marking.
Best, Charlie
Hi Will, beg to differ. The EIC did use Crown inspection over # markings, and could be at times difficult to distinguish from the Ordnance inspection stamps (which could go much higher in numbers due to many more inspectors). The EIC did indeed also have Scriptic letters over numbers as well. The Scriptic N was a year identifier and only in use for one calendar year.
Best, Charlie
EIC used the sectioned heart as an ownership marking. If what you say looks the same as British govt. insp. markings then I probably missed identifying them. Do you have examples you can post, I'd be interested.
Sure Will. I will get out my Harding and pull some EIC examples to photograph.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but EICo stampings can be really confusing and shift over time. The weapons that the Ordnance got from the Company around the emergency of the Napoleonic wars (for example) have given scholars fits because of the mixed and sometimes difficult to distinguish Inspection markings between Ordnance and EICo. They even shared a couple of inspectors.
Best, Charlie
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