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Thread: P1827 Sword find...

  1. #1

    P1827 Sword find...

    I recently acquired this sword a Pattern 1827 “For The Rifles”. I came across a site that stated that its fullered blade places it in the 1845 to 1892 timeframe. It was made by Hawkes & Co. and serial numbered 1690 on the spine. It was accompanied by a Sudanese kaskara sword and I wonder if it might have been a souvenir of the Mahdist Wars. Does anyone know if Hawkes maintained a record of sword sales by serial #? Here are some pics.


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
    Serial number info here (and more).
    The scabbard dates to about 1900 when they no longer used a top locket and metal drag presumably so it would not reflect.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Here is my current research into this disc, to be published in due course on Steve Langham's website.

    I can't get a legible screen shot uploaded due to the file limit so here is the blurb copy/pasted.

    Estimated date range:

    1872 to 1892

    Research notes

    Identified from 4 examples.

    One is attributed to an officer commissioned in 1883 and all 4 notably pre-date the introduction of the 1895 backstrap.

    3 examples are marked for 'Hawkes & Co, London, Manufacturers to the Queen', an etching style which likely pre-dated adoption of the 1892 blade.

    Additionally this disc is referenced in May & Annis, Swords for Sea Service detailing the retailer as Galt, Gieve & Co. with trading dates given as 1863-80 however, current evidence suggests Galt & Gieve had stopped trading as '& Co' at some point prior to 1875, possibly as early as 1865.

    Without having sight of the sword I have some reservations regarding this attribution. I am mindful there are several known examples of later Gieves & Sons swords paired with earlier Galt, Gieve & Co. scabbards and of course the scabbard is no certain means of dating a sword blade.

    Unfortunately, there is no cutler named on any known example however, the initials 'CR' are an obvious match for Charles Reeves who is known to have been a suppliers of Hawkes & Co.

    Reeves more well known disc (022) seems to have been in use between the early 1840's until the late 1860s or early 1870s.

    This disc might reasonably date from that period after Reeves' bankruptcy in 1869 when he produced swords on a much smaller scale.

    It could be that after that time Reeves was using blades supplied from other manufacturers. With this is mind, 3 of the 4 examples feature a style of etching which strongly suggests Robert Mole as the supplier.

    A reasonable estimate of the date range of this disc would be 1880s - 1892, and this would match other subjective evidence from the 4 known examples.

    In 1883 Wilkinson acquired a large stake in Reeves' business. How this might have affected use of this 'CR' disc or Reeves blade supply, we can only speculate.

    It is possible that this was Reeves disc from 1872(ish) to 1883 and it may even have continued after Wilkinson's involvement. At this point it appears the disc did not continue beyond the 1892 introduction of the 'Fox' blade.

    Further dateable examples may provide a clue.
    Last edited by james.elstob; 01-06-2023 at 04:44 AM.

  4. #4
    James & Will , thank you for all the information you’ve provided! It’s greatly appreciated!



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