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Thread: Folk's want to etch blades?

  1. #1
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    Folk's want to etch blades?

    Hi,3M makes a photochemically reactive resist ,it's about 3mill thick and can be applied to a fine satin or very clean polished blade surface .This must all be applied under yellow light.Cut desired amount off roll, slightly dampen steel or bronze with water mist .Peel off the dull side of the resist and lay down on the blade carefully ,then squeege away excess water and gently press out any air from under resist.You should soak in hot water for ten minuts or so after applying.Then you take your film possitive which is your art or letters,taken from black line drawing or whatever on white board or paper and printed on a clear vinal accetate film,and carefully tape down to resisted surfface.Cover sword with a black plastic trash bag or the equivilent.Take out side in full sunlight and remove cover for 15 seconds and immidiately cover with trash bag so you are not over expossing to u.v.light. Take back inside under yellow light and develop with a special solution .Whatever the art was is now expossed and the rest is resisted .Tape and touch up all resisted surfaces ,for there may be pin holes,use magnifying glass if need be to spot them.After all is dried including all touch up ink .The sword is now ready to etch .A fifty fifty mix of ferric chloride is best.Just use a large pvc pipe and screw on one end place sword in pipe ,seal open end and gently shake the pipe or rock so that the acid sloshes over the art work.Take out sword and check depth with micrometer subtracting the resist and tape thickness from reading.Put back in to etch deep as you want but be carefull the resist can flake if messed with or rubbed ,just press finger tip in art to feel depth.In my website www.odinblades.com there are several examples of the results useing this method.The viking sword had etchings on bronze guard and pommel and blade .The comodos gladius has the same etching as the fathers sword .The Excalibur 2000 that was posted by Scott Brandt had the art etched first, then was stripped and thrown back in acid to get the damascus to stand out.Check out the etchings you will find the detail to be deep and clear ,with even the finest fine line art work.Just thought you might find it interesting ,any questions or comments are wellcome . Call or email me any time and i can give you the suppliers of this product.It is the same product Eric and I used to etch the Ellis island wall of immigrants,and many other steel bronze and aluminum plaques !
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

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    Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    I am interested in what the name of the resist stuff. my email is terry_dodson@yahoo.com. is it very expensive? can you use it to electro etch with?

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    Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    I found a interesting way while cleaning out the garage. I found some "naval jelly" and tried to use it to clean up one of my blades. Damn.....should have read the directions. ....anyway I decided to have some fun with it and tested it on an old scraper sword. You don't really have much options, the longer the you wait the deeper and darker the etch. Haven't tried to posish the etch out yet, but it was interesting to play with it at the time.
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    Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by Terry_Dodson
    I am interested in what the name of the resist stuff. my email is terry_dodson@yahoo.com. is it very expensive? can you use it to electro etch with?
    I'm not sure if it can be used with electro etcher but I would think so as long as machine doesn't have to touch metal.It is also called circut board acid resist,very expensive but worth it for the results and can be ordered in different width's
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by D. Opheim
    I found a interesting way while cleaning out the garage. I found some "naval jelly" and tried to use it to clean up one of my blades. Damn.....should have read the directions. ....anyway I decided to have some fun with it and tested it on an old scraper sword. You don't really have much options, the longer the you wait the deeper and darker the etch. Haven't tried to posish the etch out yet, but it was interesting to play with it at the time.
    With this method the details are finer ,as wide as the finest rapidograph,and we have etched 14 ft.panels with photographs of half tone portrates in the metal .I once did a 56in sword with the customers dogs in the ricasso!
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by john lundemo
    With this method the details are finer ,as wide as the finest rapidograph,and we have etched 14 ft.panels with photographs of half tone portrates in the metal .I once did a 56in sword with the customers dogs in the ricasso!
    You know its great when common household products futher enrich the passions of the past. I didn't realize that its possible to have that level of control, cool.
    I'm lost---- I've gone to look for myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.

    If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

    I work for Keyser Söze.

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by D. Opheim


    You know its great when common household products futher enrich the passions of the past. I didn't realize that its possible to have that level of control, cool.
    It works even better when sword is placed under jets that pump the acid to surface ,but this requiers a machine that is entirely built from pvc panels and has an impeller to pump etch through nozzels at 15 to 20 lbs.of pressure,but you must do one side at a time with that and the sword still must be moved back and forth under nozels, or you will get deep and shallow jet marks and possibly ruin piece
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    It will etch any ferris metal but won't touch titanium ,so pvc and titanium is used to build machines .So just stick in the pipe and agitate.It will be just as good ,just alittle longer.
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by john lundemo
    It works even better when sword is placed under jets that pump the acid to surface ,but this requiers a machine that is entirely built from pvc panels and has an impeller to pump etch through nozzels at 15 to 20 lbs.of pressure,but you must do one side at a time with that and the sword still must be moved back and forth under nozels, or you will get deep and shallow jet marks and possibly ruin piece
    Great info thanks for sharing, however my garage seems to lack the appropriate amount of pvc and acid to do the job.
    I'm lost---- I've gone to look for myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.

    If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

    I work for Keyser Söze.

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    Wink Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by D. Opheim


    Great info thanks for sharing, however my garage seems to lack the appropriate amount of pvc and acid to do the job.
    Heard that bro!
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    What I was thinking of doing on my sword since I can't afford to etch it. Was use masking tape and tape off the fuller. Then place in a strip of masking tape. Measure it out then lay a sheet of wax paper the proper width and length of the fuller. Draw on what I want. Then apply the masking tape with the lettering to the fuller. Then use the Casey Birch liquid blue to put my lettering on. I know it won't last as long as acid etching. But it is a poor man's way to do it. I would use an exact-O knife to cut out the lettering. Then using a Q-tip and the liquid blue I would apply to the exposed metal of the lettering.
    When you separate groups into "US" and "THEM" you automatically become one of "THEM"

    There are two infinities. The universe and human stupidity. And I'm not so sure about the universe.

    Our spirits were forged in snow and ice.
    To bend like steel forged over fire.
    We were not made to bend like reed,
    Or to turn the other cheek.
    -Amon Amarth "Thousand Years Of Opression"

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    Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    I just etched a heron on a blade tonight. Really basic, but came out alright, considering that I didn't put a ton of time into making my design really clean before etching. Just used ferric chloride, a sharpie, and some fingernail polish. Oh, and some plasticene clay that I had around for sometime. It is mixed with wax so resists water and the acid very well. Not a brand name, though, as it was made at the local community college back when I was taking a foundry class there.

    Anyway, for very basic designs this works alright. Put your design in with the sharpie then go over that with some fingernail polish or some more coats of ink. (I did 2 etches tonight. The first one was just a single coat of the sharpie and it ate away the edges of that too much, very quickly. Made a nasty mess, which I sanded off before starting over... Second time I decided on the nail polish to reinforce the sharpie and it kept the edges very sharp. )

    After you've coated your metal with these things, make a bowl around the area out of clay or wax pressed very tightly down so none of the acid can get out. Then just dump in your acid with whatever water mix you want to try. I added just a little to mine tonight and it seemed to work well.

    I've used Scotch tape (the kind you get for mailing/packaging stuff) before and it works well to resist the acid, but you have to be very careful to make sure the edges are down solidly. If any acid gets under there... ugghh...

    I think a bit of practice can go a long ways in this. But having said that, I'm still too big a chicken to try to etch any of my nice blades. Since things can go wrong I don't know if my heart could take it if I ruined a nice piece. lol

    I think the blueing sounds like an interesting thing. Bet the look would be cool. Don't know about the durability, though. You'd have to let me know how that works out.

    Originally posted by Glenn Morrill
    What I was thinking of doing on my sword since I can't afford to etch it. Was use masking tape and tape off the fuller. Then place in a strip of masking tape. Measure it out then lay a sheet of wax paper the proper width and length of the fuller. Draw on what I want. Then apply the masking tape with the lettering to the fuller. Then use the Casey Birch liquid blue to put my lettering on. I know it won't last as long as acid etching. But it is a poor man's way to do it. I would use an exact-O knife to cut out the lettering. Then using a Q-tip and the liquid blue I would apply to the exposed metal of the lettering.

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    thanks for sharing john, i'll be sure my next custom has a really nice intricate design for you instead of a few Cirth Runes on the hilt .

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    Question Glenn Morrill

    Glenn Morrill have you thought about using the small rub-on lettering you can get rom the hobby store for lettering down your fuller, i hear they work as a resist, of course that means the fuller wold be etched and the letters left taller. I just havent been able to find the really small ones locally, but have found some 1/2" lettering locally.

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    Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    [


    For the folks here useing Ferric from radio shack( very easy and convienient source) it is already diluted to about 28/29 percent. It dosn't always say this on the bottle and could lead to some confusion. 50/50 with that would leave you with a solution of around 14 percent much weaker than what John is reccomending here. I presume since John seems to be involved in some large scale etching that he is mixing his own from granulated Ferric chloride(not avialable at radio shack) and can make whatever strength he wishes.

    someone asked if you can use an Electro etch with this type of stencil? There is no reason why not. It may even beable to make finer detail than the typical unattached stencils. If your using this method you dont have to cover the entire Blade with expensive stencil material nor do you need a big tube of ferric chloride. The electro etch kits come with different kinds of echants(electrolytes) that can provide a small variety of results. YOu can make black marks or you can make clear mark on both stianless and simple steels. Since most of the metal is bare there is plenty of places to put your ground Its a much less messy and less risky for the rest of the blade. However its designed to mark surfaces not make extremly deep lowered ground. It will make marks deep enough to feel with your fingers though. which is plenty for most purposes.
    Patrick Hastings
    "A man without patience lives in hell"
    "He o hitte
    shiri Tsubome"

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    Re: Glenn Morrill

    Originally posted by Terry_Dodson
    Glenn Morrill have you thought about using the small rub-on lettering you can get rom the hobby store for lettering down your fuller, i hear they work as a resist, of course that means the fuller wold be etched and the letters left taller. I just havent been able to find the really small ones locally, but have found some 1/2" lettering locally.

    My thing is to avoid using acid. I am clumsy enough. I don't own a blade that hasn't cut me. And I have cats. So using the acid truly isn't an option for me. I think the bluing will be better since it won't eat away any metal and it is easier to correct a mistake then it is with the acid etch. But It won't be as durable as acid etching. But since it will be in the fuller it should last a while.
    When you separate groups into "US" and "THEM" you automatically become one of "THEM"

    There are two infinities. The universe and human stupidity. And I'm not so sure about the universe.

    Our spirits were forged in snow and ice.
    To bend like steel forged over fire.
    We were not made to bend like reed,
    Or to turn the other cheek.
    -Amon Amarth "Thousand Years Of Opression"

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    Re: Re: Glenn Morrill

    Originally posted by Glenn Morrill



    My thing is to avoid using acid. I am clumsy enough. I don't own a blade that hasn't cut me. And I have cats. So using the acid truly isn't an option for me. I think the bluing will be better since it won't eat away any metal and it is easier to correct a mistake then it is with the acid etch. But It won't be as durable as acid etching. But since it will be in the fuller it should last a while.
    Glen you might try a small electro etch. The acid involved is no more than a tiny sponge dampened with a few drops of acid. You can buy a kit for as little as $69. The marks will be permanent too.
    Patrick Hastings
    "A man without patience lives in hell"
    "He o hitte
    shiri Tsubome"

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    Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by Glenn Morrill
    What I was thinking of doing on my sword since I can't afford to etch it. Was use masking tape and tape off the fuller. Then place in a strip of masking tape. Measure it out then lay a sheet of wax paper the proper width and length of the fuller. Draw on what I want. Then apply the masking tape with the lettering to the fuller. Then use the Casey Birch liquid blue to put my lettering on. I know it won't last as long as acid etching. But it is a poor man's way to do it. I would use an exact-O knife to cut out the lettering. Then using a Q-tip and the liquid blue I would apply to the exposed metal of the lettering.
    Well you could but not with masking tape make it a fine vinal tape and burnish it down good then cut out design .You really gonna do that to your sword dude?
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by john lundemo
    Well you could but not with masking tape make it a fine vinal tape and burnish it down good then cut out design .You really gonna do that to your sword dude?
    I don't know yet. It was just a thought. I can't afford to etch it, and personaly I am leery about etching or engraving on a sword. I still have a lot of thoughts for swords including the one you are making. It was just a thought is all.
    When you separate groups into "US" and "THEM" you automatically become one of "THEM"

    There are two infinities. The universe and human stupidity. And I'm not so sure about the universe.

    Our spirits were forged in snow and ice.
    To bend like steel forged over fire.
    We were not made to bend like reed,
    Or to turn the other cheek.
    -Amon Amarth "Thousand Years Of Opression"

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by Glenn Morrill


    I don't know yet. It was just a thought. I can't afford to etch it, and personaly I am leery about etching or engraving on a sword. I still have a lot of thoughts for swords including the one you are making. It was just a thought is all.
    That's cool ,the sword will be there when you are ready. I'll etch it for ya but it ain't cheap ,so down the road when you have a couple hundred layin around i'll etch it mint ! Just that experimenting on your sword with that freakin awesome design would be kind a iffy.
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    I wasn't aware of the strength as it isn't marked on the stuff I have here. But I believe you are quite correct. Adding water doesn't do much for it. I've mostly always used the stuff straight from the bottle myself. It marks fast but takes a long time to actually remove much metal. I probably left the acid on for about an hour or more to get this one I did etched. It isn't terribly deep but you can feel it with your finger, so it is there to stay...

    Anyway, one of these days I'm going to try the electo etching. It seems like a cool thing to do...

    Originally posted by Patrick Hastings
    [


    For the folks here useing Ferric from radio shack( very easy and convienient source) it is already diluted to about 28/29 percent. It dosn't always say this on the bottle and could lead to some confusion. 50/50 with that would leave you with a solution of around 14 percent much weaker than what John is reccomending here. I presume since John seems to be involved in some large scale etching that he is mixing his own from granulated Ferric chloride(not avialable at radio shack) and can make whatever strength he wishes.

    someone asked if you can use an Electro etch with this type of stencil? There is no reason why not. It may even beable to make finer detail than the typical unattached stencils. If your using this method you dont have to cover the entire Blade with expensive stencil material nor do you need a big tube of ferric chloride. The electro etch kits come with different kinds of echants(electrolytes) that can provide a small variety of results. YOu can make black marks or you can make clear mark on both stianless and simple steels. Since most of the metal is bare there is plenty of places to put your ground Its a much less messy and less risky for the rest of the blade. However its designed to mark surfaces not make extremly deep lowered ground. It will make marks deep enough to feel with your fingers though. which is plenty for most purposes.

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    Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by Scott Byler
    I wasn't aware of the strength as it isn't marked on the stuff I have here. But I believe you are quite correct. Adding water doesn't do much for it. I've mostly always used the stuff straight from the bottle myself. It marks fast but takes a long time to actually remove much metal. I probably left the acid on for about an hour or more to get this one I did etched. It isn't terribly deep but you can feel it with your finger, so it is there to stay...

    Anyway, one of these days I'm going to try the electo etching. It seems like a cool thing to do...

    I have been buying the Radio shack etchant for 18 years and occasionally they change the bottle and label to indicate the strength Its always been below 30 percent.
    David Boye does some of the most wonderul scenes useing Aqua Regia a mixture of hydrochloric and nitric (very nasty). It bites very evenly and according to Boye it is photo reactive too Light accelerates the bite. That a good thing since a fast even bite yeilds cleaner lines than a slow bite. The clear acids also let you observe the progress or lack there of. Anyhow Boye uses traditional ground for a resist and his talented wife draws the design using Burins. I bought his do it your self knife making book just becuase it has dozens of picture of these fantastic old world etchings. I dont have much use for the rest of the book though It always interesting to get a detailed account of someones technique.
    Patrick Hastings
    "A man without patience lives in hell"
    "He o hitte
    shiri Tsubome"

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by Patrick Hastings


    I have been buying the Radio shack etchant for 18 years and occasionally they change the bottle and label to indicate the strength Its always been below 30 percent.
    David Boye does some of the most wonderul scenes useing Aqua Regia a mixture of hydrochloric and nitric (very nasty). It bites very evenly and according to Boye it is photo reactive too Light accelerates the bite. That a good thing since a fast even bite yeilds cleaner lines than a slow bite. The clear acids also let you observe the progress or lack there of. Anyhow Boye uses traditional ground for a resist and his talented wife draws the design using Burins. I bought his do it your self knife making book just becuase it has dozens of picture of these fantastic old world etchings. I dont have much use for the rest of the book though It always interesting to get a detailed account of someones technique.
    What I use is I guess industrial strength so the radio shack one you may not want to thin.Here is the suplier for the high speed circuit etch phibro-tech 800-777-1850
    "Ah, the old disco room.......just as I left it!" Cassanova Frankenstein

    "It's all about having a good time!" Ricky Martin

    "We are number one....all others are number two or lower!" The Sphinx

    "Let me put my poems in you!" Chazz Micheal Micheals




    www.odinblades.com

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by john lundemo
    What I use is I guess industrial strength so the radio shack one you may not want to thin.Here is the suplier for the high speed circuit etch phibro-tech 800-777-1850
    What is the name of the 3m resist material?
    Patrick Hastings
    "A man without patience lives in hell"
    "He o hitte
    shiri Tsubome"

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Folk's want to etch blades?

    Originally posted by Patrick Hastings


    What is the name of the 3m resist material?
    PNP? Here's an in depth article on the process or a very similar one.
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