Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: a question about signed sword

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Madrid
    Posts
    11

    a question about signed sword

    Dear friends

    Anybody could tell me something about an european bladesmith (in solingen I think ) in the 17th c. who signed his blades with the following:
    "mi sinal es el Cavisco"

    What is "Cavisco"

    are there any sword of this bladesmith known in any Museum.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Germany, Brandenburg/Prussia
    Posts
    792
    "Cavisco"

    That sounds to Spanish. It is not German. Thus it is not from Solingen.

    In English "my sinal is the Cavisco"... but wat is "sinal"

    regards
    Thomas
    I hope, you can read my English.
    I must use partially a translater .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Madrid, Spain
    Posts
    213
    "Mi sinal es el cavisco" can be translated as "my mark is the cavisco", with "cavisco" being here the critical word, so far unknown.

    There was a huge production of blades made in Solingen for the Spanish market in the 16th, 17th and 18th century, many of them with inscriptions in Spanish, not unusually displaying a quite catastrophic ortography. Not that the local smiths unerringly showed a dominion of the language worth of Cervantes...

    So far, no luck in identifying the elusive "cavisco". Any other example of a blade bearing of such inscription anyone is aware of?
    Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.
    Last edited by Marc G.; 08-11-2004 at 04:42 PM.
    Marc
    "Living and trying to learn"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Madrid
    Posts
    11
    I don´t think that "Cavisco" was an Spanish sound, its imposible to read in old books and dictionaries of spanishs language. Italian ??? may be??

    Here in spain only one sword is known by me, with this inscription.

    "Clemente Boniqvi in Alamania"
    "Mi sinal es el cavisco de Sool"

    The name "Clemente Boniqui" could be Italian, but working in Alemania.

    the rest of inscription (My sign is the Cavisco of Sool), we don´t know, what is "El cavisco" and "Sool" Solingen???? may be.

    in the book "Les Eppes" of Jean Lhoste, there is an other sword which is signed with the word "Cavisco"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Madrid
    Posts
    11
    Thanks for your help Marc. Tomorrow I´ll show you the inscription "in situ"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Germany, Brandenburg/Prussia
    Posts
    792
    Normally, every where in Europe, the Blade designations was written in Latin. But not in Spain.

    I think the entire inscription is not Italian. Perhaps this word "Cavisco".

    The names of the producer adapted often the language of the order country.
    I hope, you can read my English.
    I must use partially a translater .

  7. #7

    The words"cavisco del voy"

    I have recently had the oportunity to see in detail a sword from a friend in order to decipher the inscription on the blade which resulted to be" mi sinal es el cavisco del voy" on the upper line, "espadero en alemania solige"on the lower. followed both lines (nearer the tip of the sword) with "ano de"on the upper line and "1720" on the lower.
    The same inscription was found on the opposite side of the blade.
    I understand it is very similar to those described in this thread.
    the conclusion I can forward to this forum is that "cavisco" refers to the mark or engraving (same root for the word than for the English "cavity"or the spanish verb "cavar") which can be found on the grip exactly where the index and perhaps medium fingers touch the blade.
    that area is the "voy " as refered in the inscription (voy is the spanish expression for"I go").
    Thus, the translation to nowadays English could be" my mark is the sign engraved on the grip area where your hand points the attack line direction" on the upper line, and" swordmaker in alemania solige"on the lower, followed by the date, "year of 1720".
    In fact, in the area protected by the shell, five to six inches from the pommel, not covered by the twisted wire which conforms the proper grip, where the extended index finger touch the protected blade, the mark is found on both faces. This mark is a capital "T" with an "o"centered on it, inside a crowned shield.
    I hope you will find such or similar marks on your solige rapiers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Madrid, Spain
    Posts
    1,486

    Re: The words"cavisco del voy"

    Oh, well, I honestly think you are pushing a bit too far with your theory. You are being quite creative, which sometimes is good, I admit, but it has to be said that I've never found any Spanish reference to the ricasso of a sword using the word "voy", which indeed means "I go". In Spanish it was usually termed "recazo".

    I don't know what "cavisco" means, but I don't think either that may be "mark" (again, no references) . By its form, it should also be noted that this term could come from the Spanish possesions in America, and now its original meaning could be lost. Along with possible misspellings introduced by the Solingen smith who made the blade.

    Reading again, maybe "voy" is not that, but "roy" (some faint incriptions can be somehow deceiving), which could be a mixture between "rey" (Spanish) and "roi" (French), that is, "king". That error could not be impossible to make by a German-speaking bladesmith. But please note, here I'm speculating myself...

    The mark you describe on the ricasso seems to me a fake of some similar stamps from the city of Toledo, put there in an attempt to "improve" the blade provenance. Quite a common practice back then.

    Juan
    SI, SI
    NO, NON

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    L'abbaye de Theleme
    Posts
    783
    Quote Originally Posted by Juan J. Perez View Post
    Oh, well, I honestly think you are pushing a bit too far with your theory. You are being quite creative, which sometimes is good, I admit, but it has to be said that I've never found any Spanish reference to the ricasso of a sword using the word "voy", which indeed means "I go". In Spanish it was usually termed "recazo".

    I don't know what "cavisco" means, but I don't think either that may be "mark" (again, no references) . By its form, it should also be noted that this term could come from the Spanish possesions in America, and now its original meaning could be lost. Along with possible misspellings introduced by the Solingen smith who made the blade.

    Reading again, maybe "voy" is not that, but "roy" (some faint incriptions can be somehow deceiving), which could be a mixture between "rey" (Spanish) and "roi" (French), that is, "king". That error could not be impossible to make by a German-speaking bladesmith. But please note, here I'm speculating myself...

    The mark you describe on the ricasso seems to me a fake of some similar stamps from the city of Toledo, put there in an attempt to "improve" the blade provenance. Quite a common practice back then.

    Juan

    I just got entangled into another "caviso del voy" sword at an auction catalogue
    https://docplayer.fr/15814811-Armes-...storiques.html

    And of course, the answer is "Caviso del voy" = "Cabeza del Rey" = Kings head. My symbol is a kings head. Not bad, 15 years later.
    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas City Metro (USA)
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Ramos View Post
    I just got entangled into another "caviso del voy" sword at an auction catalogue
    https://docplayer.fr/15814811-Armes-...storiques.html

    And of course, the answer is "Caviso del voy" = "Cabeza del Rey" = Kings head. My symbol is a kings head. Not bad, 15 years later.
    Sometimes it takes awhile to finish research. Never give up... good job Javier.
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •