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Thread: British sword please to dentify

  1. #1

    British sword please to dentify

    Hallo,
    can somebody please identify this British sword?
    How old??
    What pattern??
    Which regiment stands the 25th LANcrV.A for??
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  2. #2
    2
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    3
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  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    I'm guessing 25th Lan____ Volunteer Artillery

  6. #6
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    As for the rest, It's a pattern 1821 Lt cavalry saber which was also used in artillery regiments. There should be several other identifying marks. Etchings of a cannon, the word Ubique. If not, the saber could be cavalry, but the button holding the tang makes me think later 19th century. Looks to be in very nice condition.

    I used to have one and really liked it.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by WBranner
    I'm guessing 25th Lan____ Volunteer Artillery
    Yes, that could well be correct...Lancaster?.
    I would add that my own observations of this sword pattern over the years is that artillery swords normally had stepped pommels, it being unusual for them to have chequered pommels.
    John.M.
    John Morgan.

  8. #8
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    You might recal a couple of months back I posted a question about my artillery M1821 with the blade marking of XIXth LAV, which some guessed to mean either Lancashire or or Lancaster.

    As John indicated mine has a stepped pommel.

    You mentioned the word "Ubique", do you know at what point that was added to Artillery Regiments? Mine has the typical cannon etching and crown, but no words.

    Rob

  9. #9
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    I've just seen it on swords, but never knew it's significance.

  10. #10
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    Battle Honour of Ubique

    G'day,

    Just checking through my 'Customs and Traditions' book for the Royal Australian Artillery; the Royal Artillery was granted the Battle Honour of 'Ubique' ('Everywhere') in 1832, and there was a cesation of individual battle honours for the Royal Regiment after that. Royal Engineers have the motto 'Ubique', but Artillery is unique in that it is the only Corps that has a battle honour which is also a motto.

    The theory behind the Battle Honour is that, whenever the grunts were out winning Battle Honours for individual battles, the Gunners were always there in support (hence 'Everywhere').

    As for when it appeared on the 1822 Pattern sword, I have no idea.

    Info from Chris Jobson's book 'The Royal Regiment of Australian Artillery - Customs and Traditions'.

    Cheers,
    Dean.

  11. #11
    I think the thunderbolt motif turns up at the same time. Good to have a specific date Dean. Robson only says "early 1830s" for the motto.

    By way of example I recently put up for auction the sword of an Royal Artillery officer commissioned in 1801 (his 1822 pattern blade rehilted with the 1821 cavalry hilt as per orders around 1850 - he retired a Major General in 1854). The blade had a personal battle honour (Maida 1806) not the Corps one etched onto it.


    David

  12. #12
    HI and thanks to all, yes there is a cannon with a sword on the blade but no words and I like this one but then I like ALL the British ones I got

  13. #13
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    Klaus,
    Has the scabbard of this sword been bent drastically to allow the sword to be housed the wrong way round?
    John.M.
    John Morgan.

  14. #14
    No it will only fit in one way

  15. #15
    Originally posted by John Morgan
    Klaus,
    Has the scabbard of this sword been bent drastically to allow the sword to be housed the wrong way round?
    John.M.
    Well spotted John!

    Klaus - John's point is that the hanging rings are on the wrong side compared to the curve of the scabbard. They're usually on the inner, concave side.

    Paul

  16. #16
    Hm the blade fits in the scabbard PERFEKT so i guess is the right one

  17. #17
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    I saw that, but figured it was the shadow. If you look at the drag, you will notice that it matched the rings.

    I thought the rings were on backwards.

  18. #18
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    if you look at the picture Klaus posted of the collection (with swords in scabbard) it is indeed in backwards! Ouch!

    It also appears a bend visible below the second ring.
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  19. #19
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    I am sure the scabbard was not made like that. I wonder if it had fractured and broken in one, or even two, places and then welded or brazed back together...and somehow the curvature of the scabbard reversed?. The shoe appears to be the correct way round!.
    Klaus...has the scabbard a painted finish?.
    John.M.
    John Morgan.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by John Morgan
    I am sure the scabbard was not made like that. I wonder if it had fractured and broken in one, or even two, places and then welded or brazed back together...and somehow the curvature of the scabbard reversed?. The shoe appears to be the correct way round!.
    Klaus...has the scabbard a painted finish?.
    John.M.
    John,

    If it was put back together, it looks like it was pretty good job with the exception of the obvious error.

    Could the bands have been removed and reattached incorrectly?

    Andre

  21. #21
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    I think, it is a originaly scabbard for a straight sword.
    It was bent, thus it fits for the curved blade.
    Unfortunately the curvature went into the wrong direction.

    Thomas
    I hope, you can read my English.
    I must use partially a translater .

  22. #22
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    That's an interesting thought, Thomas. I reckon you are probably correct.
    John.M.
    John Morgan.

  23. #23
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    Very old thread resurrected here but I've identified this officer so I thought someone may be interested.

    Adolph M Viener, 25th (Blackpool) 4.A. Br artillery volunteers. Made Captain 1865.

    P. S. This is not my sword, I'm just doing some general research.
    Last edited by james.elstob; 08-12-2021 at 07:02 AM.

  24. #24
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    James that research does date the sword nicely. Possibly a group photo of the regiment exists and maybe you could put a face to the sword ?

  25. #25
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    Will, I just needed to put a date on the proof disc and my work here is done. Buuuuut...

    A Painful sensation was caused, on March 10th, in Blackpool by the announcement that a highly respected jeweler, Mr. A. M. Viener, had died from the effects of an overdose of chloral taken medicinally.

    Source: The Watchmaker, Jeweller and Silversmith - 1st April 1892

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