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Thread: UK online petition to Government - SIGN IT NOW!

  1. #1
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    UK online petition to Government - SIGN IT NOW!

    Sorry for the cross posting but I'm trying to reach as large an audience as possible. This petition can be found at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/swords/ I am asking the Government to reconsider their position on an outright ban. All UK cits and ex pats can sign up. Please take the time to follow the link and add your support. There is also a thread in the legal issues forum http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=76954

    If we want the UK govt to take notice we need as many names as possible. Please forward this link to anyone you know that may be interested.

    Many thanks

    Jason
    __________________________

    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand
    I don't care, I'm still free
    You can't take the sky from me
    Take me out to the black
    Tell them I ain't comin' back
    Burn the land and boil the sea
    You can't take the sky from me
    There's no place I can be
    Since I found Serenity
    But you can't take the sky from me...

    Theme from Firefly

    www.seidokai-karate.co.uk

  2. #2
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    Signed and submitted
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  3. #3
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    Good work mate!! it was abt time someone took initiative!!

    -signed...
    "I have maintained an extreme level of anger and solitude over peroids of my life...And in doing so I've developed into a devil...So io order to know me is to accept an angelic demon.

  4. #4
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    Let's hope a large enough bunch of folk BUMP into the petition and sign it, but another option would be for moderators to make this thread a sticky on heavily used fora as an aid to the English and Welsh contingent of sword enthusiasts.

    It goes without saying that this could also be done to assist the Scottish in their fight against the very same problem under their government.
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Stonebridge View Post
    Let's hope a large enough bunch of folk BUMP into the petition and sign it, but another option would be for moderators to make this thread a sticky on heavily used fora as an aid to the English and Welsh contingent of sword enthusiasts.

    It goes without saying that this could also be done to assist the Scottish in their fight against the very same problem under their government.
    There was a sticky in the General forum for the petition of Scot worries. As with that petition, you may want to clarify if international participation through this petition is valid (not so, by the page). I notice that this is also posted to the legal issues section but not to the General Forum. I don't know whether it hit the Pub. Seems to me if you are really out to garner attention, the two most travelled sections of SFI might spark interest. You might add some British forums to your list, like the Schola crew. Track down Bob Brooks as well. Run it through the Historical swordsmanship rooms. If you really want the signatures, it takes some footwork. Seems to me you want real community participation and not just from a bunch of fanatics (tongue in cheek). Hit the streets, I say.

    I had a phone call yesterday that broke my concentration. The fellow said he belonged to a survey group and asked if I was a registered voter. "Yes, I am. Thank you and have a good evening" Thus, I ended the phone call.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; the Scot petition went international
    Last edited by Glen C.; 02-19-2007 at 05:01 AM.

  6. #6
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    Hi Glen,

    Voting is restricted (As indicated earlier) to British nationals and ex-pats, but there are two ongoing issues concerning the two seperate parliaments that are involved. Therein lies the problem, because there seems to be a little confusion regarding the differences between proposed English and Scottish sword controls legislation, which are two different entities.

    The new fora "index" format is resulting in the increased likelihood of newcomer's (As well as old members) missing information concerning the proposed bans. Information would best be presented on the forum page they're visiting and potentially kept on each page as a sticky.

    Real community participation would possibly improve vastly if SFI admin were to fully back and more openly encourage such activity. Admin could educate their international membership via posting stickies in each individual fora on both sets of proposed legislation, without tucking the relevant information away (As they've done in the general Forum), or allowing a valid (But preferably locked) thread to disappear amongst the ranks as new thread topics arrive and evolve.



    Geordie; The Scottish petition may well have gone international, but this one is intended for parliamentary submission and those entitled to vote in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  7. #7
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    Hi Sean,

    I do know that folk following this realize the difference between the two parliments. What I see as some real issues is that there is little coordination between groups and real public campaign.

    As an example, we have this newly announced petiton here, and another.

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/SwordBan/

    Real signatures from street campaigns are going to be a lot more effective than a slew of internet petitions. Certainly, the bulk of interest is from the sword community but real success is going to be easier if it involves serious numbers of voters. Set up booths at events and faires, get out on the street. Radio and print advertising. Real paper letters.
    As far as reaction here and administration participation, the legal issues forum was a good place to put it. Those that care are looking there. Did the original poster contact the administration here for help? Did they post it to the swordsmanship forums and more viewed areas? I must have missed it. Has anyone responded to Stephen's inquiry for an update? Real results are going to require real effort.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; don't rely on a minority to sway the majority
    Last edited by Glen C.; 02-19-2007 at 06:10 AM.

  8. #8
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    Assuming you meant Stephen Hand, the answer to his question is here in plain view and in black and white, but I notice you haven't made an offering. Your questions regarding the original placement of these petition threads would be better asked on a first person basis. It's far more polite to ask someone directly than speaking of him / her in the third person whilst potentially in their presence

    The petition on this thread is a government sanctioned form of petition and not related to the Nihonto message board i-petition, which has been signed by every man and his horse.

    Everything else you've suggested has already been covered in conversation, but thanks for offering You're quite wrong regarding SFI's general populace having more than a superficial interest in the Legal Issues Forum as there are few who would now know where the forum is. Especially since the format of SFI has been so drastically altered.

    Unless you know which forum you want or which one holds the key to relevant information, you've a snowball in hell's chance of finding the subject matter.

    Geordie; Divvn't teach yer nanna how te suck eggs.
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  9. #9
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    Hi Sean,

    My reply was to you and thus discussion of the lead post in third person. Not very different than your discussing forum structure, moderators and how the information should be billed.
    Everything else you've suggested has already been covered in conversation, but thanks for offering
    Yes, I have made suggestions in this thread. In earnest and solidarity, not in derision.
    but I notice you haven't made an offering
    To the thread in Legal? No, I had nothing in the way of an update to offer. Whether someone with the latest news cares to enlighten the conversation wishes to, I'll be glad to read it. A curasory search of news isn't bringing up much but theives and street fights. Believe me, I wish you folk luck with it. We have more than fifty individual crisis to deal with here.

    As an aside, I was struck by a comment in a distant chat group. "When are they going to let me vote on a bill that is before the house" "We" do elect our vote, after all.

    Nor have I signed the other petition, sponsored by the Nihon-To message board. While perhaps a better model, it is not clear whether international participation is expected. I do see other than UK signatures listed.

    Regarding the current indexing and format, I somewhat agree but generally give folk a bit more credit for being able to navigate.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; Speak it in Welsh then, so that I may not understand you

    Not too, obscure. From Shakespeare's Henry IV

  10. #10
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    I tend to give folk a darned sight more credit than you seem to think, but it's familiarity that tends to be the key to navigation, not inventiveness in layout or artistry. Whilst Jason is the originator of this conversation and therefore a first party, the moderators are not (Unless they choose to participate) and it's quite allowable to speak of them in the third tense.

    In addition. There's no up-dated information here either and that basically matches the reason behind your not making an offering in the Legal Forum thread.

    It's all semantics and perspective anyway.

    -----

    Individuals have a minimal chance of making any impact upon publicity issues, the creation of positive news worthy articles and statements unless they're card holding members of recognised sword ownership / enthusiast bodies. It otherwise amounts to being a voice lost in space, because singular, or dis-jointed parties tend not to hold much sway in political circles.



    Geordie; It's an English dialect dear chap. Divvn't ye kna proppa Northumbrian? Especially when nominating Harry Hotspur as the champion behind your signature.
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  11. #11
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    All I know of Geordie is that the translators go from the "kings" English to what seems a quaint dialect. It does somewhat bolster my agreement to Scandanavian influences in the region. Harry's time at the house of Percy was probably as well versed in French, considering the court customs.

    Cheers

    Celtic American Wondering what internet life would be like if I had started using Owain Glyndwr as a nickname ten years ago

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    All I know of Geordie is that the translators go from the "kings" English to what seems a quaint dialect. It does somewhat bolster my agreement to Scandanavian influences in the region. Harry's time at the house of Percy was probably as well versed in French, considering the court customs.

    Cheers

    Celtic American Wondering what internet life would be like if I had started using Owain Glyndwr as a nickname ten years ago


    Historically The funniest fact is that the North Eastern Northumbrian and Cumbrian dialects have a sound basis in Old English, Celt, Norse and Anglo Saxon, whereas the more commonly accepted "Queen's" (Public school) English tends to give a false impression of everyday grammar and leant more heavily toward the Latin and French formerly used at court.

    It's a crying shame that the use of the Celt & Gaelic groups of languages had almost disappeared, but they're fortunately enjoying a revival around the British isles.
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  13. #13
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    sword ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Bell View Post
    Sorry for the cross posting but I'm trying to reach as large an audience as possible. This petition can be found at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/swords/ I am asking the Government to reconsider their position on an outright ban. All UK cits and ex pats can sign up. Please take the time to follow the link and add your support. There is also a thread in the legal issues forum http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=76954

    If we want the UK govt to take notice we need as many names as possible. Please forward this link to anyone you know that may be interested.

    Many thanks

    Jason
    >
    Done.
    >
    Do you know if the British martial arts press are on the case?
    >

  14. #14
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    Hi all

    Terry - I honestly don't know if it has got any press. I certainly don't have the contacts and posted it to SFI in the hope that people would forward it to as many people as possible. If you have any contacts in the press go with it! As long as the message gets out.

    Glen C - I still feel a newbie to the forum despite a rather long thread that shall remain nameless. The pub didn't feel like the right forum and I was worried enough about cross posting it once let alone multiple times. Thought I'd get flamed for taking up too many posts with the same subject. If anyone wishes to add a link and let the pub know please feel free. I have no idea where UK sword enthusiasts congregate (but it ain't in Loughborough ) but I sincerely hope that they come across the petition.

    Sean - Carm dahn carm dahn, divvn't ye kna tha's ihmpartahnt laike Apols for exact spellings do you know of any GSOL (Geordie for Speakers of Other Languages) classes?
    __________________________

    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand
    I don't care, I'm still free
    You can't take the sky from me
    Take me out to the black
    Tell them I ain't comin' back
    Burn the land and boil the sea
    You can't take the sky from me
    There's no place I can be
    Since I found Serenity
    But you can't take the sky from me...

    Theme from Firefly

    www.seidokai-karate.co.uk

  15. #15
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    Hi Jason,

    It's "carm yersel doon" and a' am carm man, but "Larn Yersel Geordie" is a gyud enuf little byuk te get ye and any otha larna's ev GSOL gannin marra.

    Allthee wor lass (Bein a soft southern lass from deep doon sooth) says "cahm dahn" in a queer cockney accent tho' but and hez a reet job understandin wot am sayin efter ah've hed a few te many bottles of dog. Newky Broon fer them we divvn't kna.

    Translation for those not quite up to speed with geordie finesse

    "The phrase is "calm down" and I am calm my dear man, but "Learn Yourself Geordie" is as good a piece of reading matter as you'll find for those interested in learning the Newcastle lingo my good friend.

    Although my darling wife (Being a southern girl) uses the phrase "cahm dahn" in her best, but still sweet West London accent and needs a translator whenever I've a had a few too many tipples of Newcastle Brown Ale."

    -----

    I'm into my second nicotine free week and it's murder, with a little torture thrown in. Even the pet budgy's terrified and the nicotine patches taste bloody awful
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  16. #16
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    Hey, First post here, and Petition signed.

  17. #17
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    Hi Jake, thanks for signing and welcome to SFI!

    Sean - Thanks for the translation. My geordie is a bit rusty. I have also posted the link to the petition on the Blades UK and British Blades forums (thanks Greg for the link ) to try and spread the word. If anyone knows of any other sites please let me know.

    Osu
    __________________________

    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand
    I don't care, I'm still free
    You can't take the sky from me
    Take me out to the black
    Tell them I ain't comin' back
    Burn the land and boil the sea
    You can't take the sky from me
    There's no place I can be
    Since I found Serenity
    But you can't take the sky from me...

    Theme from Firefly

    www.seidokai-karate.co.uk

  18. #18
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    Just out of curiosity... How many signitures should we hope for?
    I know i was born, And i know that i'll die, The in-between is mine, I am mine.

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    Talking Billyunz und billyunz

    Well, 100 guarantees it will go to the PM. It will also look like we all drink at the same pub. How many martial artists are out there? How many sword collectors, smiths, practitioners etc? I have no idea. The more sigs we can get the more kudos it will garner. Admittedly, the road tax and vehicle tracking petition got nearly 2 million and Bliar is still going to ignore it. Hey ho, we've written to our MP's and the Home Office, this is just one more element we can use. Remember we don't just use archers, we back them up with a row of spearmen and have cavalry off to the flank If you get my drift. I have posted this on other blade type forums and there is a lot of 'Why bother, it'll happen anyway, we tried we just get ignored' going on. Never ceases to amaze me.

    <NOTE to No.10 We don't have any archers, spearmen or cavalry - its just a metaphor guys (Before we get the newspaper heading 'Sword Fanatics threaten Blair with arrows') >

    My sig got deleted from one forum for being too long - oops. Maybe when we actually get a measure of personal freedom in our choices I'll shorten it.
    __________________________

    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand
    I don't care, I'm still free
    You can't take the sky from me
    Take me out to the black
    Tell them I ain't comin' back
    Burn the land and boil the sea
    You can't take the sky from me
    There's no place I can be
    Since I found Serenity
    But you can't take the sky from me...

    Theme from Firefly

    www.seidokai-karate.co.uk

  20. #20
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    Hi Jason,

    If I were you, I would still post it to the swordsmanship forums here. I don't believe it would be out of line. I would avoid the SIGN IT NOW! type urgency in presentation and maybe play down the militancy a bit.

    Good luck with it

    Hotspur; it's not like what we say doesn't show up on search engines

  21. #21
    I'm sort of a Martial Artist

    I will post this link on K.U. (Karate underground) and on the Seki Ryu Zan Homepage.

    http://www.karatethejapaneseway.com/...05251f0456a628

    http://www.sekiryuzan.org/
    Cryf oedd calon hn y glas glogwyni,
    Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddr,
    Chwyddodd gyfoeth gŵr yr aur a'r faenol,
    O'i enillion prin a'i amal gr.

  22. #22
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    Thanks Gwyn. See you were one of the first to sign it, nice one. Ahem, 'sort of a martial artist...' I think humbleness is one of the great virtues Gwyn. Osu.

    Glen C - If this is what passes for militant maybe we have more freedom in the UK than I thought. Will post it to other forums and see if we can bump up the numbers a bit. Cheers for the tip.
    Last edited by Jason Bell; 02-23-2007 at 04:11 PM.
    __________________________

    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand
    I don't care, I'm still free
    You can't take the sky from me
    Take me out to the black
    Tell them I ain't comin' back
    Burn the land and boil the sea
    You can't take the sky from me
    There's no place I can be
    Since I found Serenity
    But you can't take the sky from me...

    Theme from Firefly

    www.seidokai-karate.co.uk

  23. #23
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    No disrespect intended Jason but

    NOTE to No.10 We don't have any archers, spearmen or cavalry - its just a metaphor guys (Before we get the newspaper heading 'Sword Fanatics threaten Blair with arrows
    doesn't negate the effect of writing
    Remember we don't just use archers, we back them up with a row of spearmen and have cavalry off to the flank
    when you are trying to present an issue as a concerned citizen. I even take note of some things written in your petition that don't read well but hey, it's not my draft. By eliciting the support of the sword community, you are already preaching to the choir. To garner the hearts and minds of the public, a more moderate approach will yield greater reward. I guess what I'm trying to say is that metaphor and alienating the media aren't great tactics. Sean did bring up public education in the other thread here. The media is part of that public.

    I'm glad you are going to post it up to the swordsmanship boards. There are quite a few UK practioners that will see it there.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; not a politician but I grew up very close to the methodology
    Last edited by Glen C.; 02-23-2007 at 05:18 PM.

  24. #24
    Positive response on the other Forums :

    http://www.karatethejapaneseway.com/...pic.php?t=6579
    Cryf oedd calon hn y glas glogwyni,
    Cryfach oedd ei ebill ef a'i ddr,
    Chwyddodd gyfoeth gŵr yr aur a'r faenol,
    O'i enillion prin a'i amal gr.

  25. #25
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    Thanks Gwyn, very kind of you. Have signed up myself as well, what an excellent forum!

    Glen C - What can I say? I will take your words of wisdom to heart and try and forge a gentle path.

    Artcircus: Maybe you should go into politics?
    __________________________

    Take my love, take my land
    Take me where I cannot stand
    I don't care, I'm still free
    You can't take the sky from me
    Take me out to the black
    Tell them I ain't comin' back
    Burn the land and boil the sea
    You can't take the sky from me
    There's no place I can be
    Since I found Serenity
    But you can't take the sky from me...

    Theme from Firefly

    www.seidokai-karate.co.uk

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