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Thread: Practice Kama

  1. #1

    Practice Kama

    My freind (mentioned in previoust thread) is obsessed with sythes and was thrilled when I told him about Kamas. I can only find foam Kamas (our parents won't let us own real weapons) Can you guys give me a link to wooden Kamas? I was going to get them for him so I could pwn him ay sparring.

  2. #2
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    http://www.martialartsmart.net/17-32.html

    This place also has alot of training videos too (I know many members here frown on those but for some of us its a start). I haven't ordered from them yet but Ive intended to alot so I keep the link.

  3. #3
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    Exclamation sparring with wooden weapons = big injury risk

    Jesse, you mentioned in this other thread that you wanted to "practice" with a wooden zanbato (i.e., an oversized anime katana): http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=82728

    You also mentioned that you are fifteen years old. Do you have any martial art training? Because sparring with wooden weapons can be dangerous - especially if you don't have any training. It is VERY easy to break a bone or crack a skull with a low-powered swing. Not only that, wooden kamas are pointy and could take out an eye. You would actually be better off with foam weapons.
    "Impossible" is a word that humans use far too often.
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    Posts like these concern me. As a warning to all readers under the age of 18, we have generally preferred that participants be 18+ or of legal age. If you're trying to circumvent your parents in your acquisitions, please either take the moderator's advice in finding a proper trainer or purchase a foam sword (some are available at Toys R Us, and they're actually pretty decent for recreation) or we have to revoke your access.
    Adrian
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Loucks View Post
    http://www.martialartsmart.net/17-32.html

    This place also has alot of training videos too (I know many members here frown on those but for some of us its a start). I haven't ordered from them yet but Ive intended to alot so I keep the link.
    I can't predict whether you'll decide to take the moderators' advice or not, but if you really must, these kama in particular are awful for any contact. I've seen them in action before. They might stand up to very light contact if you strengthen the joint of the blade and handle with epoxy or Gorilla Glue, but the adhesive that comes with it out of the box was, in the set I saw, unsafe for swinging at somebody else. As for other wooden weapons, the cheaper ones ($10 bokuto, these kama, red oak staves, &c.) can be OK for starting out, if you only stick to solo forms. I am not nearly as experienced as many of the people on SFI and I've seen plenty of these cheaper weapons break, splinter dangerously, or otherwise show themselves to be unsuitable for sparring. And the majority of these instances were half-speed or less!

    And if you must spar with wooden kama, please at least take the precaution of padding the tips and yourselves thoroughly, and avoid strikes to vulnerable targets (face, throat, groin, hands, or unpadded areas). When you strike with the tip, it is basically coming down with the force of a thrust; all the force of the weapon is concentrated into a very small area, and has a lot of potential for serious injury.

    Oh, and the purpose of sparring is not to pwn your opponent; it is to learn from him. He may be your friend now, but I guarantee that if you're goofing off and you bust his teeth, he's gonna get a lot less friendly. Anyway, remember, nobody here is trying to discourage you from learning; the idea is to discourage you from doing anything that has a lot of potential for dangerous injury to yourself, your sparring partner, or bystanders, and untrained sparring with wooden weapons can be dangerous. Anyway, be safe, and use common sense. Weapons, wooden or "real", are tools, made of breakable materials. The first step to not getting maimed while you spar is realizing that wood is wood, no matter how you cut it, and it's going to behave like wood whether it's a chair or a sword. If you wouldn't like to be hit in the head with a chair, I suspect you won't enjoy getting hit in the head with a bokken. Likewise, if you wouldn't throw a chair full-force at a rock, you probably oughtn't do the same with a bokken.
    Praemonitus, praemunitus.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Ko View Post
    Posts like these concern me. As a warning to all readers under the age of 18, we have generally preferred that participants be 18+ or of legal age. If you're trying to circumvent your parents in your acquisitions, please either take the moderator's advice in finding a proper trainer or purchase a foam sword (some are available at Toys R Us, and they're actually pretty decent for recreation) or we have to revoke your access.
    Okay I understand youre warning but what difference does a difference in age make? The awnser is experience which can be shared through an organized forum like this one. So instead of telling me i'm a bad person or to young tell me What and Why you suggest. Because telling me not to do something without a reason just makes me want to do it more.
    Last edited by Jesse Rusin; 09-05-2007 at 07:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Rusin View Post
    Okay I understand youre warning but what difference does a difference in age make? The awnser is experience which can be shared through an organized forum like this one. So instead of telling me i'm a bad person or to young tell me What and Why you suggest. Because telling me not to do something without a reason just makes me want to do it more.

    Jesse,

    You CAN'T gain EXPERIENCE just by reading posts on a forum like this, it is someting you live. You CAN LEARN a few things from what people tell you.

    Real martial arts weapons are not toys to be played with. Even wood, while safer than steel, can cause serious injuries. Especially the cheaper wooden weapons, because they are made specifically for kata practice, not for fighting. Rubber or foam weapons are for sparring, and still need to be handled with care.

    Most martial arts distributors will not sell (by law) ANY weapons other than foam or rubber to buyers under 18 years old.

    We don't think you're a bad person, but we do want you to be safe. Youtube is full of too many "jackass wannabes" and "ninja wannabes" who've hurt themselves while fooling around with weapons they were not trained to handle properly.

    Go to a Karate school, get an instructor and have him/her teach you the proper way to handle the weapons.

    As for experience, I have trained in martial arts, including bo, sai, kama, jo, tonfa and batto-do (katana) for 21 years. I have been hit by wooden practice weapons, cracked ribs HURT!
    "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in an attractive and preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

    Tracy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Rusin View Post
    Okay I understand youre warning but what difference does a difference in age make? The awnser is experience which can be shared through an organized forum like this one. So instead of telling me i'm a bad person or to young tell me What and Why you suggest. Because telling me not to do something without a reason just makes me want to do it more.
    What Tracy just said. Jesse, no one is calling you a "bad person". Your age *is* relevant, not just because of legal reasons (i.e., sword sellers/martial art retailers forbidden from selling *real* weapons to minors), but also because you are still under your parents' care. God forbid something happens to you, they can - and most likely will - be held liable.

    I also bolded your last sentence for emphasis - because we did give you reasons why you shouldn't engage in sparring with wooden weapons. I'm sorry you're not hearing what you want to hear, but trust me on this...none of us want to see you - or your friend - get hurt. I've done my share of *controlled* sparring and paired kata with wooden weapons in the dojo, and even a light-powered swing HURTS like crazy.
    "Impossible" is a word that humans use far too often.
    - Seven of Nine

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    Very true about how Slow swings can still hurt like crazy, Especially on aLENGTHY weapon.

    Ever been hit by a long thin stick of bamboo before?

    I got the beating from my mum whenever i was naughty, she ruled my behaviour with Force.
    And i can tell you, even her 'SOFT' swings back then hurt like crazy.

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    No one here is attacking you. Most of us have been in your shoes before. But listen before you get angry, if you don't someone WILL get hurt. If you do that while training, accidents will happen, but they will no longer be considered accidents. Just something to think about

    If you are thinking of buying wooden weapons to spar, forget about it. You and your friend could practice paired forms, but you shouldn't be doing any heavy striking, since wood will (and I have seen it happen...) break, and splinter. And you do not want to be stabbed by a splintered bokken. So, IMO you should go for the padded weapons, wooden if you absolutely must, and practice some paired forms. After that, go for maybe, MAYBE, half-speed sparring.

    Be careful, don't do anything you will regret later.
    "If we do not move, then we shall be separated by darkness."

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by D. Freeman View Post
    No one here is attacking you. Most of us have been in your shoes before. But listen before you get angry, if you don't someone WILL get hurt. If you do that while training, accidents will happen, but they will no longer be considered accidents. Just something to think about

    If you are thinking of buying wooden weapons to spar, forget about it. You and your friend could practice paired forms, but you shouldn't be doing any heavy striking, since wood will (and I have seen it happen...) break, and splinter. And you do not want to be stabbed by a splintered bokken. So, IMO you should go for the padded weapons, wooden if you absolutely must, and practice some paired forms. After that, go for maybe, MAYBE, half-speed sparring.

    Be careful, don't do anything you will regret later.

    Okay, I know where i can get foam kamas but I am lost on the foam zanbato.
    Where Can I get a foam Zanbato
    The first google link for a foam zanbato is http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=82728 (not even kidding, it is just sad)
    Last edited by Jesse Rusin; 09-06-2007 at 03:44 PM.

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    As you age you find out that you pay for your early stupidies. I wake up most mornings with hands that hurt and do not want to close. My back is beginning to make itself aware when I lift things half the weight of things I used to carry around and I'm a long way from retirement age!

    If you want to learn from our experience---learn to be safe now---learn to use skill over power, don't mess yourself up now and you'll be able to mop the floor with the folks who pushed the limits in their youth....
    Thomas Powers
    CoFounder of the Intergalactic Union of Bladesmiths
    "when you forge upon a star"---you better have your union card handy!

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    Thumbs up Practice weapons

    You can find some decent rubber/foam practice weapons at www.awma.com:

    http://www.awma.com/index.cfm/action...ct_id/6698.htm

    http://www.awma.com/index.cfm/action...ct_id/9728.htm

    www.centuryma.com:

    http://www.centurymartialarts.com/De...b-e2416bf85920

    www.karatekorner.com:

    http://www.karatekorner.com/index.cf...uctID/6698.htm

    http://www.karatekorner.com/index.cf...ctID/10712.htm

    http://www.karatekorner.com/index.cf...uctID/9728.htm

    There are several different types of padded swords and other weapons available. Some cost more that others, but make up for it in durability. Even with padded weapons, you may want to invest in helmets and gloves, definately wear goggles or some type of eye protection. Even padded weapons hurt if striking hard enough!

    Any of these companies are going to require a parent to order them for you, since they have to be paid for with a credit card. And they won't sell weapons to anyone under 18 due to liability issues.

    Good luck and safe practice!
    "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in an attractive and preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

    Tracy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Rusin View Post
    Okay, I know where i can get foam kamas but I am lost on the foam zanbato.
    Where Can I get a foam Zanbato
    The first google link for a foam zanbato is http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=82728 (not even kidding, it is just sad)
    ... I highly doubt you will find a foam "zanbatou." You may be able to use a foam bo staff, but again this will be dangerous (way too much velocity from the swing, it will probably break...). If you are intent on learning how to use this weapon, I would say to use a foam katana, and maybe buy a suburito FOR PRACTICE ONLY. Those are really your only safe options.

    BTW, I know you probably don't care about my opinion, but this weapon choice is extremely stupid. Honestly, someone with a katana, or even a wakizashi, could defeat you very quickly, even if you are incredibly strong and incredibly skilled, because your range will be too great, if you will, and you will probably be too slow. If I was given the choice of the two weapons, I would take the kamas, despite the fact that I am very unexperienced with them.
    "If we do not move, then we shall be separated by darkness."

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by D. Freeman View Post
    ... I highly doubt you will find a foam "zanbatou." You may be able to use a foam bo staff, but again this will be dangerous (way too much velocity from the swing, it will probably break...). If you are intent on learning how to use this weapon, I would say to use a foam katana, and maybe buy a suburito FOR PRACTICE ONLY. Those are really your only safe options.

    BTW, I know you probably don't care about my opinion, but this weapon choice is extremely stupid. Honestly, someone with a katana, or even a wakizashi, could defeat you very quickly, even if you are incredibly strong and incredibly skilled, because your range will be too great, if you will, and you will probably be too slow. If I was given the choice of the two weapons, I would take the kamas, despite the fact that I am very unexperienced with them.

    Please explain. I understand smaller weapons have more control but larger weapons have momentum and reach.
    What difference does a difference in age make? I know how it ends.

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    Newton's First Law: Inertia (objects in motion tend to stay in motion, objects at rest tend to stay at rest). The momentum will only help if you hit, if you miss, the weapon will want to stay in motion, and will until something stops it (i.e. you or the ground, maybe a body). This is great if you hit the opponent, but if you miss me, then your recovery time will give me the advantage of simply pushing your weapon aside and cutting you however I wish.
    "If we do not move, then we shall be separated by darkness."

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    You know, if you love to spar with wooden weapons, even though it is dangerous, is kendo armor an option? If so, you can worry less about injury, but for someone who is my age, it is only within the realm of possibility.

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    One more thing to think about

    another issue I am sure you don't want to think about, but... Who is going to supervise while you are sparring? None of my students ever spar with out having a non-combatant to "watch out" and some of my students are over 50, and have 4th degree Belts.
    Last edited by Steve Sells; 10-01-2007 at 03:31 PM.

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    deleted due to double entry...
    Last edited by Steve Sells; 10-01-2007 at 03:31 PM.

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    Kendo armour is great if you're practicing kendo--otherwise, no, it won't make sparring with wooden weapons safe. Kendo emphasizes control, has a limited target area, and uses bamboo shinai specially constructed for sparring. Kendo armour won't stop a bokken from breaking an arm, or keep oak splinters out of your eyes. The armour might even be considered a drawback, as the false sense of security it provides may encourage even more reckless attacks.

    That said, anyone interested in learning a sword art would be much better served by enrolling in a kendo class than by "sparring" unschooled and unsupervised in their backyard.
    - Tim

    Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim McShane View Post
    Kendo armour is great if you're practicing kendo--otherwise, no, it won't make sparring with wooden weapons safe. Kendo emphasizes control, has a limited target area, and uses bamboo shinai specially constructed for sparring. Kendo armour won't stop a bokken from breaking an arm, or keep oak splinters out of your eyes. The armour might even be considered a drawback, as the false sense of security it provides may encourage even more reckless attacks.

    That said, anyone interested in learning a sword art would be much better served by enrolling in a kendo class than by "sparring" unschooled and unsupervised in their backyard.
    Is the kendo armor only for the face then? Or have I just been misinformed?

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    Kendo bogu covers face/head, torso, hands/wrists, and groin/hip. Targets in kendo consist of the head, neck (thrusting only), hands/wrists, and torso. Kendo bogu, again, is designed to meet a blow to these body parts from a bamboo shinai, not a hardwood bokken.
    Last edited by Tim McShane; 10-04-2007 at 04:51 PM.
    - Tim

    Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

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    Ah i see, it would provide some protection against it, but i do not think that full on sparring with bokken is a good idea in the first place, especially unsupervised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Rusin View Post
    Okay I understand youre warning but what difference does a difference in age make? The awnser is experience which can be shared through an organized forum like this one. So instead of telling me i'm a bad person or to young tell me What and Why you suggest. Because telling me not to do something without a reason just makes me want to do it more.
    Kid got a point. Let em break a bone or two. Thats how i learned. "hey mom can i smoke''? "sure'' ...cough...cough
    IT WORKS

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    There's also the option of looking up the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA). Anyone over 16 (with parental consent--18 otherwise) can take up arms and armour for fairly safe full speed sparring. They still have a lot of rules that have to be complied with, for safety's sake, but it's nowhere near as strict as kendo in what you can do.

    Check out http://sca.org
    - Tim

    Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

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