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Thread: Riveted Maille and Padded Jack Tests (very photo intensive)

  1. #1

    Riveted Maille and Padded Jack Tests (very photo intensive)

    Thanks to Julio Junco Funes, Matuls and Brian Hook for their help with this test.


    Many historical arms and armor enthusiasts dream of the ultimate test of what weapon can defeat what defense and vice versa. Period materials, realistic conditions, historically accurate weapons; these are the holy grail of such tests, and although many good tests have been performed, each has been seen as lacking in one area or another. This test is no different. Although most of the weapons used, with the glaring exception of the bow, are historically accurate, the test has many flaws and falls short of providing definitive answers to any question of weapon vs. defense. However, this test gives us a glimpse, an idea and maybe a good feel for the answers, and perhaps if used in conjunction with other tests can provide a bit more.

    The test is divided into two parts. The first is a test of various weapons against a large section of riveted maille, the second against samples of a linen Jack; 10, 20 and 30 layers thick. Various weapons were employed in the test, all of which are described and pictured herein.

    Both tests used a hanging pell, though the pell was dismounted and propped against a wall for the thrust tests. The pell is constructed of a 4x4 wooden post, surrounded by two layers of pool noodles. The noodles are covered in duct tape and wrapped in landscaping cloth. When suspended by a chain, it is heavy enough to offer resistance yet it also gives ground in the way a moving opponent might do when struck.


    Part 1 - Bow, Sword and Poleaxe vs. Maille and Gambeson

    This part of the tests focuses on a combination of maille armor over a padded gambeson. The maille is made by Julio Junco Funes, a highly talented maille maker from Spain who makes the finest maille I have ever had the privilege of seeing first hand. Julio makes the maille in his spare time as a hobby and does not usually sell it. I was very fortunate to get a section of this fine maille for testing.

    A close up view of the outer and inner surfaces of the maille:




    The maille is constructed from alternating row wedge riveted/solid links from about 14 or 15 gauge wire (thick!) and just under 7mm ID (a little over 6.5). The riveting/overlap was done exceptionally well and is the most historically correct maille I’ve ever seen. I have not had the chance to examine the work of other renowned maille makers so I cannot make a comparison in that regard, but this was one quality piece of maille.

    An idea of size:



    This is an import hauberk from India with 9.5mm ID rings. Note that you can see the concrete through the links:



    The gambeson used is the discontinued cotton model made by Revival Clothing. It has a thick canvas outer shell and is padded with cotton batting.



    The gambeson was placed over a hanging pell and the maille was hung over the gambeson.



    The first weapon used was a compound bow set to 50lbs and 70lbs.



    Although even at 70lbs a compound bow cannot compare to the power of a 150lb English war bow, it makes up for it by using arrows that are of optimal weight for the power of the bow. The bow I used shoots 400 grain arrows at 300fps (factory specs). According to the Great Warbow by Robert Hardy and Matthew Strickland, the initial velocity of a 1663-grain arrow from a 150-lb English war bow is around 171 fps. Its kinetic energy is therefore 146 J. Benjamin H. Abbott, a member of myArmoury, calculated that a 400-grain arrow shot at 300 fps has 108 J of kinetic energy. Considering that I conducted my tests at 20 feet and 20 yards, a bow that generates 108J of energy is a very good simulation of the force that would have been encountered on the medieval battlefield. Very few arrows were ever shot 20 feet away from a charging mailled knight.

    Modern arrows with field points were used, as this is the closest thing to bodkin points I could get my hands on.



    Three arrows were shot from two positions at 50lbs for a total of six arrows. Two more sets of three were shot from the same positions with the bow set to 70lbs. The first position was 15 feet away from the target (point blank), and the second position was 20 yards away from the target.

    50lbs, 15 feet: the maille/gambeson stopped the arrows, causing them to rebound from the target. Some of the links were bent, one was broken.

    50lbs, 20 yards: the maille/gambeson stopped the arrows, causing them to rebound from the target. No damage to the links at all.

    70lbs, 15 feet: 2 out of three arrows pierced the maille/gambeson and imbedded themselves in the pell. The third arrow broke two links but bounced off, stopped by the gambeson underneath.




  2. #2

    Arrow removed:



    70lbs, 20 yards: all three arrows were stopped (bounced off), but each one broke at least one link.



    Here are some of the links broken by the arrows. You can see that when an arrow breaks a link, it is usually at the rivet point.



    These results are far superior to the imported Indian 9.5mm riveted hauberk I tested earlier. That hauberk could not stop the bow at 50lbs and 20 feet, nor did it stop any of the arrows at 20 yards, though it did rob them of enough force that the gambeson was able to defeat half of them. I later tested that hauberk at 70lbs and each arrow at both ranges easily defeated it. This maille, much more historically correct and of stouter rings with better quality riveting defeated every arrow shot at 50lbs and all of the arrows shot at 70lbs from 20 yards. The difference between them is literally life and death.

    After concluding the arrow tests, I went on to test the maille against two melee weapons; an MRL hilted Del Tin longsword, mostly likely type XX, and the Knightly Poleaxe from Arms and Armor.





    For thrusting tests, I used an Albion Talhoffer, a longsword of type XVa.



    [b]Cutting test with sword: [b/] I attempted to cut through the maille several times with powerful over the shoulder and over the head cuts. The sword failed to penetrate the maille and could not break any links. Some of the links were slightly bent and nicked, but all were intact. The damage to the edge of the sword was extremely minor, which demonstrates how well the padding of the gambeson absorbs the force of the cut.



    Thrusting test with Albion Talhoffer: using the half-sword grip, I thrust three times into the maille. I was afraid to damage my Talhoffer, I sword I am very fond of, so did not thrust as hard as I could have. Despite that, out of three thrusts, I was able to break one link. However, even without breaking a single link, the Talhoffer’s point is able to penetrate 5/8” past the maille. With a broken link, that becomes about 3”. The gambeson offered no resistance to the Talhoffer’s point, so whatever got through the maille penetrated the flesh underneath.

    Unfortunately I do not have photos as I conducted this particular test at a later time for my own enjoyment and did not capture it on camera. I had not planned to include it in the write-up but later decided that it should not be left out.

    Cutting test with the Poleaxe: The poleaxe failed to fully penetrate the maille, although believe me when I say whoever was under that maille would have been thoroughly dead. The poleaxe is a devastating weapon.

    Each strike with the poleaxe resulted in at least 3 broken links, sometimes quite a bit more.



    When the poleaxe breaks a link, it breaks it where it meets it, unlike the bow.



    Thrusting test with poleaxe: the poleaxe’s top spike devastated the maille. It easily broke through and penetrated the gambeson underneath, burying itself in the 4x4 post at the heart of the pell.


  3. #3


    The inside of the gambeson after the poleaxe spike penetration:



    Conclusion: Good maille is very effective against arrows and is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cut with a sword. However, it is no match for heavy polearms such as the poleaxe, and swords with very acute points can at the very least draw blood without much effort. A good thrust from such a sword can kill.

    Part 2 - Swords and a Dagger vs. a 10, 20 and 30 layer Jack

    Both cutting and thrusting tests were performed. Cutting tests were done by hanging the jack over the pell while the pell was suspended from chain, resulting in the sort of give that would be encountered when cutting a living, moving opponent.



    Thrusting tests were performed with the pell dismounted and leaned against a wall. A hanging pell has too much give to simulate 200lbs of man and gear.



    The swords used for the test were, top to bottom:

    Angus Trim 1508
    Albion Regent, old style point
    Nihonto, traditionally forged, signed Chounsai Emura Saku
    Albion Talhoffer
    Albion Earl
    Windlass Brass-hilted Rondel Dagger
    Albion Brescia Spadona



    Not all swords were used in every category of test, though all swords were used in the thrusting tests.

    As the shape and configuration of the point is extremely important for penetrating a jack, here is a close-up of each weapon’s point:



    1 - Regent, 2 - Brescia Spadona, 3 - rondel dagger, 4 - Earl, 5 - Katana, 6 - Atrim 1508, 7 - Talhoffer.

    The tests will be described in what may appear to be an illogical sequence, as the actual tests were mixed so that there would be no consistent pattern to cloud the results (holes from thrusting weaken material for cutting, etc.).

    The padded jack samples were supplied by Matuls and consisted of two sections of jack, one a 10 layer section and the other a 20 layer section. The 30 layer tests were conducted by putting one on top of the other.






    Cutting Test Against 10x Jack

    Atrim 1508: Penetrated all 10 layers with a small gash.




    Katana: cut right through… a massive gash.


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    Brescia Spadona: a very good sized gash. This sword is second best cutter of the bunch.



    The victim after the first round of cuts. Top gash is from Brescia Spadona, middle from the katana and bottom from the Atrim.




    Thrusting Test Against 10x Jack

    Rondel Dagger: this dagger is extremely thick and stiff and is geared more for harder targets such as maille. As it lacks sharp edges on it’s point, it did not do so well against the jack. It penetrated, but not very far.



    Katana: thrust right through as though the jack wasn’t even there. Although the katana does not have an acute point, that does not matter when cutting a jack. As you can see from how poorly the rondel dagger did, what counts against a jack is how sharp the edges of the point are, not just how acute it is.



    Atrim 1508, half-sword grip: easily penetrated the jack and stuck in the wooden core of the pell. Again, although the point is not acute, it is sharp, and therefore can cut through the jack. This particular result was surprising to me, as I had almost decided not to test the Atrim due to its spatulate point.





    Brescia Spadona, half-sword grip: easily penetrated the jack. Although it looks as though it did not penetrate as far as the Atrim, that is only because the point of the Spadona is a lot more acute. It too stuck in the wood at the pell’s core and the penetration was achieved with less effort.



    Thrusting Test Against 20x Jack

    The victim, ready for thrusting:




    Atrim 1508, half-sword grip: same as 10 layer jack. Total penetration.



    Brescia Spadona, half-sword grip: same as 10 layer jack. Total penetration.

    Earl, normal grip: total penetration. Although even this stiff sword flexed a lot during the thrust, it was stiff enough to penetrate completely without a half-sword grip.
    Last edited by Michael Edelson; 09-12-2007 at 11:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Thrusting Test Against 30x Jack

    All of the swords were penetrating the jack, so it was time for the big boy. The 30 layer beast.



    It’s one thick monster!



    Atrim 1508, half-sword grip: failed to penetrate. Came very close, but not completely through.



    Brescia Spadona, half-sword grip: easily penetrates, stick in the wood. I was amazed with how easily this sword defeated a 30 layer jack.



    Albion Earl, half-sword grip: penetrates, not quite as easily.



    Rondel dagger: penetrates, but only slightly, just as with the 10 layer jack. The dagger’s super acute tip pierced the jack, but as its edge is dull, it fails to cut it open and get any farther in than its tip allows.



    These last three swords (except the katana against the 10 layer jack) were not tested against the lighter layers because I was certain they would penetrate. The two Albions have very sharp and acute points, and after how easily the katana dealt with piercing the 10 layer jack it too became a favorite. None of these swords disappointed.

    Albion Regent, half-sword grip: easily penetrates.

    Albion Talhoffer, half-sword grip: easily penetrates.

    Katana, normal grip: penetrates, though not as easily. I’m not sure if it’s the point or the grip that made it harder. I would guess the grip.



    Cutting Test Against 30x Jack

    It’s time to cut the beast!



    I decided to start with the 30 layer jack before the katana reduced the 20 layer piece to ribbons. We started with the Atrim.

    Atrim 1508: failed to cut through. In fact it only cut through the first two layers.



    Brescia Spadona: failed to cut through the 30 layer jack, but it cut about half way through.

    Albion Earl: failed to cut, cut a couple more layers than the Atrim. The weight and stiffness of the blade really come into play here.

    Katana: the 30 layer jack party is over. The katana cut completely through the jack, leaving a horrendous gash. It is easy to understand why medieval soldiers liked the falchion (another dedicated cutting sword) so much...I believe the results would be similar.



    Cutting Test Against 20x Jack

    Atrim 1508: failed to cut all the way through, but cut more than half the layers.



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    Albion Earl: cut about as far as the Atrim, but left a longer gash.



    Brescia Spadona: cut all the way through the 20 layer jack! Although I could only put one finger through the hole, I was very surprised that I was able to breach a 20 layer linen jack with a longsword.



    Bow Against 10x Jack

    I did not test the bow vs. the thicker jacks, because the 10 layer jack stopped the 70lb compound bow at 20 feet 3 out of 3 times. I believe that a sharp arrow such as a medieval broadhead (which would have no chance of defeating maille) would be able to penetrate a jack, but the arrows I had just bounced off.

    The first few layers were penetrated, then the arrow bounced off.



    Conclusion: a jack, worn by itself, is easily defeated by thrusting weapons, even those seemingly not optimized for the thrust. Acutely pointed longsword gripped in the half-sword position make short work of even 30 layer jacks. The ease with which the Talhoffer, Regent and Brescia Spadona penetrated the 30 layer jack makes me believe they would have no problem with a thicker jack or one made from thicker layers.

    A jack, particularly one more than 10 layers thick is a very good defense against swords not optimized for the cut, but a cutting sword like a katana (and perhaps a falchion or messer) makes short work of them. The katana absolutely devastated the jack, and the Brescia Spadona, a civilian dueling longsword, was able to defeat a 20 layer jack. Very surprising indeed.

    Where the jack rally shines is against arrows. Even a 10 layer jack stopped my arrows cold, and I believe medieval bodkins wouldn’t fare any better. These tests have gone a long way towards convincing me that the jack was used primarily as a defense against arrows.

    When considering the effect of various swords on the jack, it is important to understand that the person wielding the sword has to be experienced. Some member of NYHFA with limited cutting experience also attempted to cut the jack, but they did not succeed. It’s not easy to penetrate a jack, not even with a good sword.

    Based on the tests, I formed some impressions of the swords I used, and in closing, I’d like to share them with you:

    Albion Talhoffer: perhaps the most versatile sword of the group, it cuts well against unarmored targets and has a deadly point that can pierce the thickest jack and given a sufficiently strong thrust, some very good maille.

    Albion Earl/Regent: a powerful war sword that is tough enough for almost anything with an acute point that makes short work of textile armor.

    Albion Brescia Spadona: the best cutter of any longsword I have ever used with a wicked point that can defeat any jack. It’s only weakness is derived from it’s strength as a cutter…it’s flexibility. However, used with a half-sword grip, that weakness disappears. I wouldn’t use it against maille, but then it was never intended for that.

    My katana: what a weapon! Although I wouldn’t want to be caught in a duel with someone wielding a longsword (the thing is too short!), it feels like it can cut through anything and is a much better thruster than I thought.

    Atrim 1508: an excellent and versatile all around sword. Not quite the cutter some of the Albions are against historically correct media, it handles as well as the Brescia and can take a lot of abuse without suffering edge damage.
    Last edited by Michael Edelson; 09-12-2007 at 11:20 PM.

  7. #7
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    Not a proper comment but an exclamation of sorts...

    Hi Michael

    I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading about your experiments. It's this kind of practical historical research that makes swordsmanship so worth while to me.

    Your results and conclusions leave me hungry for more. What sort of cuts would have been possible with a messer? Could it cut as well as a Katana? Surely not, or? What differences would onehanded weapon use yield? And so on...

    Well done and thanks for sharing/
    Andreas
    The pen may be mightier than the sword, but the sword sure is a lot more fun!

  8. #8
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    Nice work!

    But - I thought you couldn't thrust with a Katana?
    Bartender and Brewmeister for the Pub


    Stranger in a Strange land

  9. #9
    curious if you have any thoughts as to why the katana was able to deliver so much more devastating cuts?

    I assume the blows were delivered with the same force (or as close as you could get by 'feel'), and in the same manner (or did you vary technique to suit the weapon?)... so would you put it down to sharpness, blade manufacturing, blade geometry or perhaps aliens ?


    as another poster said - it would be interesting to compare against a European weapon of similar characteristics (though I am at a loss for what that may be)
    Last edited by David E. Farrell; 09-13-2007 at 05:07 AM.
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  10. #10
    Fantastic test, thanks for all the great info!

    Interesting to note the cutting efficiency of the Katana. Was it noticeably sharper than the other swords?

    Steve
    Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance

  11. #11
    Hi all,

    I knew the katana thing would raise some eyebrows.

    First, it was sharper than the other swords. This sword was polished (and hence sharpened) in the 40s and still retains its edge. It's not shaving sharp, but it is extremely "paper sharp" (meaning it will easily slice paper), whereas the next sharpest sword, the Brescia Spadona, was mildly paper sharp.

    Second, it is curved, and third, it is stiff as a board, which means absolutely no energy is lost in vibration. Imagine cutting with a longsword whose center of percussion is along the entire blade.

    As for a messer, in my experience I can say that a two handed messer-like weapon would cut as well, maybe a one handed weapon if the same power could be delivered.

    The only difference in technique is that the katana was used overhead whereas the longswords were used over the shoulder. It certainly did not feel as though I applied any more power, but it felt as though more power made it to the target (no vibration).

    As for thrusting, this shocked the hell out of me. I too thought the katana was not a good thrusting sword.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Edelson View Post
    Hi all,

    I knew the katana thing would raise some eyebrows.

    First, it was sharper than the other swords. This sword was polished (and hence sharpened) in the 40s and still retains its edge. It's not shaving sharp, but it is extremely "paper sharp" (meaning it will easily slice paper), whereas the next sharpest sword, the Brescia Spadona, was mildly paper sharp.

    Second, it is curved, and third, it is stiff as a board, which means absolutely no energy is lost in vibration. Imagine cutting with a longsword whose center of percussion is along the entire blade.

    As for a messer, in my experience I can say that a two handed messer-like weapon would cut as well, maybe a one handed weapon if the same power could be delivered.

    The only difference in technique is that the katana was used overhead whereas the longswords were used over the shoulder. It certainly did not feel as though I applied any more power, but it felt as though more power made it to the target (no vibration).

    As for thrusting, this shocked the hell out of me. I too thought the katana was not a good thrusting sword.

    Interesting... sounds like you have a hell of a sword in that katana (from the 40s and still sharp!? sweet.)

    I wonder what a type XIIIa would have done, since its blade geometry would be more 'optimized' for stiffness in the cut.

    I am not sure the overhead vs shoulder difference would account for much difference (assuming the overhead arch wasn't some huge thing and there isn't some big mass discrepancy) - though it would be interesting to compare the results using the same technique, as well as a more 'typical' one - based on the arts that use the particular type of sword.
    AKA: 'Sparky' (this way I won't need to explain )

    For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Edelson View Post
    I knew the katana thing would raise some eyebrows.
    Well, not too much--it is a good cutter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Edelson View Post
    As for thrusting, this shocked the hell out of me. I too thought the katana was not a good thrusting sword.
    You didn't thrust it against the mail (for good reason). Against flesh and "cut-able" material (i.e. the Jack), I would expect it to do quite well. Against mail or harness I would expect that something with a more tapered point to do better (although this is all conjectural until someone tries it in a test like this).

    Of course this test really proved that regardless of whether your opponent has a longsword or a katana, you want a polearm

    Steve
    Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance

  14. #14
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    The katana does thrust well - it's still a linear motion if done properly. I think the key is the tip shape. I'm not sure what your's is like but in the array of swords shot, you can see the flare behind the Kissaki. This gives it a lot of strength.

    I think it would do more damage than commonly thought to mail. Of course, the edge would be damaged but in battle.......that's why polishers were never out of work!
    Bartender and Brewmeister for the Pub


    Stranger in a Strange land

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mat Rous View Post
    The katana does thrust well - it's still a linear motion if done properly. I think the key is the tip shape. I'm not sure what your's is like but in the array of swords shot, you can see the flare behind the Kissaki. This gives it a lot of strength.

    I think it would do more damage than commonly thought to mail. Of course, the edge would be damaged but in battle.......that's why polishers were never out of work!
    I don't think it would do too badly against mail, but probably not nearly so well as swords like the Talhoffer with a long, gentle taper (but again, conjectural). The disadvantage of thrusting with a sword like the Katana compared to a longsword is not the effect of a thrust on a body (i.e. penetration and such), but the length and balance characteristics of the blade. Point movement is slower and by the time your point has reached your opponent, he's already put nearly a foot of steel into you.

    Steve
    Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Edelson View Post
    The only difference in technique is that the katana was used overhead whereas the longswords were used over the shoulder.
    Cool tests, but I'm getting the impression you don't think longswords were used over the head. (see figure on the right foreground from Meyer 1570)

    [Edited out because the image is too big. It's image C from Meyer 1570.]

    Also, if you wrap some piece of meat with the bone in and do these same tests you should be able to see the damage that can result even if the weapon does not defeat the protection. (This will just give you an excuse to have fun with it again.)
    Last edited by Will Adamson; 09-13-2007 at 06:47 AM.
    If you're not wearing a dirk, you're wearing a skirt!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Adamson View Post
    Cool tests, but I'm getting the impression you don't think longswords were used over the head. (see figure on the right foreground from Meyer 1570)

    [Edited out because the image is too big. It's image C from Meyer 1570.]

    Also, if you wrap some piece of meat with the bone in and do these same tests you should be able to see the damage that can result even if the weapon does not defeat the protection. (This will just give you an excuse to have fun with it again.)
    I'm know longswords were used over the head, but I am trained to use them over the shoulder. There is no more or less power there....I merely used each sword in the way I am trained to use it.

    As for what happens underneath, I am quite aware. I wrapped the thirty layer jack around my arm and one of my students struck me there lightly with a blunt. Ouch!

    With these test I was only concerned with the effect of the weapon on the defense itself. Adding meat would have been too difficult. Maybe later.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Reich View Post
    I don't think it would do too badly against mail, but probably not nearly so well as swords like the Talhoffer with a long, gentle taper (but again, conjectural). The disadvantage of thrusting with a sword like the Katana compared to a longsword is not the effect of a thrust on a body (i.e. penetration and such), but the length and balance characteristics of the blade. Point movement is slower and by the time your point has reached your opponent, he's already put nearly a foot of steel into you.

    Steve
    I've tested a katana against mail...not this one (I wouldn't dare!) but a production kat. I tested the cheap Indian mail, but I couldn't break any links. Theoretically, the katana is stiff enough to break links and penetrate, but as it lacks the weight of the poleaxe you would have to give it one heck of a thrust!

    The reason a sword like the Talhoffer can break links, especilly in cheap maille (I had no problem breaking hte Indian maille links) is that it pulls them apart from the inside, the riveting is very bad, and it only has to break one to achieve a lethal penetration (on 9.5mm links). In contrast, the kat doesn't go far enough in and it's point geometry ends up pushing against the link rather than pulling it apart. These thrusting tests into the cheap maille were done half heartedly and just for fun, so take the results with a grain of salt.

    I'm really glad you guys are enjoying this post...it makes all the time spent worthwhile.

  19. #19
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    Very nice set of tests - thanks for those!

    I'd like to see how a falchion compares to the Katana, and perhaps even a more cut oriented western blade (Type X-XII) just to see how they fare.

    All in all another round of very interesting and informative tests.

    Cheers!
    -John

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by John Lethbridge View Post
    Very nice set of tests - thanks for those!

    I'd like to see how a falchion compares to the Katana, and perhaps even a more cut oriented western blade (Type X-XII) just to see how they fare.

    All in all another round of very interesting and informative tests.

    Cheers!
    The Brescia Spadona is a very cut oriented blade. However, it lacks the mass of a heavier cutting sword.

    I might have enough jack material left to test the Tritonia. I'll see that I can do.

  21. #21
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    I remember hearing that when the Spanish were fighting the Aztecs, they ditched their metal armor for padded jacks because they stopped the arrows better. Looks like your tests support this.
    Aron Montaini
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  22. #22
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    Nice set of tests. One quibble: for your arrow tests, the core that you use is a wooden pell, I take it. Once the arrow has broken a mail ring, it may have enough energy left to penetrate flesh but not a wooden pell.
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  23. #23
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    I thought this was great!!! Thanks for taking the time to do it, expending the funds necessary to risk armour and arms, and then to post all of this info for our consumption! I learned a great deal from it.

    Cheers,

    Brian Stokes
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  24. #24

    Thumbs up Nice Job!

    This is great impirical work! Well done! Have you considered publishing any of this? I find it all very fascinating and extremely valuable. Your documentation is methodical and easy to follow. I have always wanted to know the answer to these questions. This research provides us with a better understanding of martial history. It is too bad the government does not give grants for such work. If they did, I am sure you would be well-funded.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas S View Post
    Nice set of tests. One quibble: for your arrow tests, the core that you use is a wooden pell, I take it. Once the arrow has broken a mail ring, it may have enough energy left to penetrate flesh but not a wooden pell.

    The pell has a wood core, but it is coverd in two layers of pool noodles and several layers of porous landscape cloth. There is a lot of room for penetration, and those arrows that did penetrate had a way to go before striking wood.

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