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Thread: Persian straight swords

  1. #1
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    Persian straight swords

    I finally found the technical term for Persian straight swords in the Qajar period: Shamshir-e rast (straight sword).

    This is mentioned in the hand-written manuscript Resaleye Elm-e Jang (The manuscript of the war science) written by Donboli Tabrizi. He exactly describes this sword in early ajar period. Parts of it

    [this unit consisted of mounted cavalrymen with chahrayne and also a long straight sword . . . . a shamshir with a tighe-ye rast or shamshir-e rast . . . ]

    Now back to earlier periods, this sword was also called shamshir-e do dam, shamshir, mostaghim. My article on this type of Persian straight swords will soon appear in a magazine.

    There is no mention of a revival sword or a tradition of reviving an old period Islamic blade in the Qajar military manuscripts. I will report on these wonderful manscripts soon here and in other print articles.

    Kind regards
    Manouchehr
    Last edited by Manouchehr M.; 12-22-2007 at 08:30 AM.

  2. #2
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    I would like to thank all my students who have been helping me to find out so many materials in national archives of Iranian museums and libraries. There is a wealth of information there. This is simply unblievable.

    Kind regards
    Manouchehr

  3. #3
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    could you take a look at this thread

    In reference to the current thread
    I bought this some time ago as "The only one like it in Afghanistan" And these photos are not coming out like I want them to. any how
    the sword is 32 3/8 inches long with a 23 5/8 blade and a 8 3/4 inch hilt, not including the gaurd. the steel is not wootz and some time ago some one applied a very aggressive cleaning to it and it is very scratched up. I have been very agressive my self using nothing but oil, a cloth and a worn in soft tooth brush and a lot of time.

    I saw a sword much like this in shape in the Smithsonian in November.

    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=85563

    and revisit this thread
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=73273


    close up of the hilt

    a bit farther out

    close up of the steel in the blade, there is no wootz pattern i can see
    Last edited by David Lewis Smith; 12-22-2007 at 10:35 AM.

  4. #4
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    and two more
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  5. #5
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    There is not much I can add at this stage. Have you tried to etch the blade?

    Regards
    Manouchehr

  6. #6
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    I have not tried to etch this one, actually I am rather nervous about it it is the only one I have seen like this so I am being very delicate with it. Do you have a suggestion for etch with out damage?

  7. #7
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    Hi David,

    If you use warm lime juice or warm vinegar you won't run any risk of damaging the blade. Dunk the blade into the juice/vinegar if you have an appropriate container or just use a brush or soft cloth. Once the pattern has become visible neutralize the acid with baking soda. Washing with sope could also work as the acid is very week.

    Regards,
    Emanuel
    Always check your assumptions...there are no contradictions.
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  8. #8
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    the blade is not scratched up which is also amazing for Afghanistan, the folks I buy swords from 'clean' everything with sand paper or emory cloth.

    I will give warm vinegar a go in the next few days and see what comes of it, how long should it be left on?

  9. #9
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    Have you come accross pulwars and salawar yataghans (khyber knife)?

    If the pattern is there and you dunk the blade in warm vinegar, it may come up in a couple of minutes. I've used lime juice with good results and it is stronger than vinegar. I understand that pineapple juice is also a favourite in Indonesia as it's very weak and can be used over long periods of time.
    For a more drastic trial, I've seen PCB etchant solution recommended, diluted with distilled water.

    Good luck!
    Emanuel
    Always check your assumptions...there are no contradictions.
    Get some real news...
    www.informationclearinghouse.info
    www.counterpunch.org
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanuel Nicolescu View Post
    Have you come accross pulwars and salawar yataghans (khyber knife)?

    .

    Good luck!
    Emanuel
    I have 7 or so khyber knives, though the Afghans refer to them as curtch (Cur`tch) I have quite a few pulwars, tulwars, shamshirs and two shashka, three actually but one is Russian. I bought quit a few knives as well some of them have lovely wootz pasterns. Ill post a new thread some time this month, camera time and editing to fit SFI takes a while

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    I have not tried to etch this one, actually I am rather nervous about it it is the only one I have seen like this so I am being very delicate with it. Do you have a suggestion for etch with out damage?

    Before trying anything, ask Greg Obach here. He can help you as a professional polisher of crucible steel. Many crucible steel blades react differently to etchants used for welded steel blades. That is very important to note

  12. #12
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    Hello,
    Nice blade. It is very interesting. Try a moist tea bag (black not green) anything with acid can start corrosion but the tannins in the tea actually protect the iron. I have used it to determine if a pattern is present. This is not an etching method but preferential deposit of the tannins. Also, you really do not want to dunk a blade in anything or expose it to water for any length of time. good luck
    Dr. Ann

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