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Thread: Wilkinson Sword Characteristics

  1. #376
    Thanks Matt,

    The last image is the only one on which I can see the border clearly (the rectangle); do you have a specific date for this sword? This one would appear to be more unusual than most.

    Gordon

  2. #377
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    No, I'm afraid it had nothing to date it. The maker's name/address was up on the base of the fuller, rather than down on the ricasso. It was obviously pre-1854 and post-1845, but I can't see any way to narrow it down further.

  3. #378
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    Hi folks - what do you make of this? It's a light cavalry officer's sword, I'd estimate around 1845-1860s, it has the HW (Wilkinson) proof disc, but with a sun burst surround instead of the usual star and no retailer or maker's name and no serial number. Perhaps Wilkinson made for a retailer? But I've never seen a Wilkinson proof disc on a non-numbered or named sword before, and not with a sun burst instead of the 6 pointed star. Very odd.

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  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Easton View Post
    It's a light cavalry officer's sword, I'd estimate around 1845-1860s, it has the HW (Wilkinson) proof disc, but with a sun burst surround instead of the usual star and no retailer or maker's name and no serial number. Perhaps Wilkinson made for a retailer? But I've never seen a Wilkinson proof disc on a non-numbered or named sword before, and not with a sun burst instead of the 6 pointed star. Very odd.
    I tend to associate the sunburst with Mole - maybe the Wilkinson factory took in a Mole-supplied sword after they'd bought them out for some work and the proof disk needed replacing? Though I admit that's stretching the imagination somewhat!

    John
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

  5. #380
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    Yes, I also associate the sunburst with Mole, very odd! The proof disc is definitely Wilkinson's though. The guard also has the side-slot for the knot, mostly only seen on Wilkinsons and Pillins (though occasionally on other makers).

  6. #381

    Northumberland Fusiliers

    Hello! I got this 1897p Infantry officers sword by Wilkinson with a Northumberland Fusiliers pattern on the blade and a badge on the hilt. I have not been able to find any initials, but there is a small "M" etched in just over the hilt. Has someone seen this before?

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    Last edited by Thomas Storegjerde; 01-01-2016 at 04:14 AM.

  7. #382
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    Exceptional blade with battle honours. The "M" is the blade makers initial. Should be able to identify him. Maybe Richard who will know will chime in.

  8. #383
    Ah, good to know for future reference. I am currently filling out a form to Richard Milner, looking forward to some interesting back story!

  9. #384
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    Hi Thomas,

    By all means try submitting a request for Richard to search the register, but keep in mind that most of the Wilkinson made swords between the numbers: 44401 – 54963 were made between 1914 to 1917 during WW1 and did not have any name recorded in the register. Richard used to return any cheque supplied if no name was recorded in the register so hopefully nothing lost if it is a blank.

    Regards
    Bryan

  10. #385
    Bryan; Thanks for the heads up, I read as much on another thread. Because of this I sent him an email first, and he was kind enough to confirm that he actually did find a name linked to the sword.

    - Thomas

    Ps. I acquired a second sword at the same time as the one I posted earlier. At first I thought it was also made by wilkinson (keep in mind I am completely new to this hobby!), but it does not have a slug in the hexagon and no other "made by" markings that I could find. It is a 1895p hilt with Queen Victorias cypher.The only thing I could find to research was a three-digit serial no. (212). Do any of you knowledgeable gentleman think it is possible to find out who made the sword, or am I out of luck?

  11. #386
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    Hi Thomas,
    Excellent news regarding 51123 - this really is good news!! Would be keen to see what name you find... If you have any problems with the Army Lists let me know and I will see what I can do to help.

    Swords by other makers; I really only tend to collect Wilkinson made items (1) the workmanship and quality, and (2) the serial numbers often providing a purchaser's name. Otherwise I only buy for the look of a sword (style etc) or if it is etched with an heraldic crest (one of my other hobbies). So I do not know of any other sales register lists for swords other than Wilkinson, hopefully other forum members can help out here...?

    Regards
    Bryan

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    Exceptional blade with battle honours. The "M" is the blade makers initial. Should be able to identify him. Maybe Richard who will know will chime in.
    My apologies to Robert, I meant to mention his name to identify the "M".

  13. #388
    Bryan; Yes, I am very eager to find out more myself and I will of course share the results once I receive them! That is why I've also gotten so intrigued by this maker, the most exciting thing for me is the story and history the sword might unveil..

    Will; With regards to the "M", will this also be written in the records?

  14. #389
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    [QUOTE=Bryan T;1217157]Hi Thomas,

    By all means try submitting a request for Richard to search the register, but keep in mind that most of the Wilkinson made swords between the numbers: 44401 – 54963 were made between 1914 to 1917 during WW1 and did not have any name recorded in the register. Richard used to return any cheque supplied if no name was recorded in the register so hopefully nothing lost if it is a blank.

    Emailing Richard can determine if a blade proof page has a name entered. Some WW1 sword do have names recorded, I was lucky enough to get a 1912p cavalry with name.

  15. #390
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    Will; With regards to the "M", will this also be written in the records?

    Not in the records. I have as word with the same mark but can't remember the blade makers name that Robert told me. Looking for where I wrote down the info but so far nothing yet.

  16. #391
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    Will: fair point, now looking back and thinking... - the amount of Wilkinson swords I've let pass due to being in the 1914 to 1917 period..... Anyway, shouldn't look back and always look forward...
    Regards
    Bryan

  17. #392
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    I have a good WW1 1912p cavalry sword # 45031 to a Lt. B.H. Barlow, Bedfordshire Yeomanry. Full etched blade covering about 2/3. Unfortunately didn't find much about him.
    I find if a WW1 era sword catches your eye why not research it?

  18. #393
    Ok! I've got an email back from armsresearch.co.uk, which said that the sword was completed 04. december 1915, the name of the original buyer was E. G. Pease and that he was enlisted in the Northumberland Fusiliers. What is the next step if I want to find out more (which I do;-)) about this person? I'm guessing that unless it is a famous figure, that it is hard to find information by just googling "E. G. Pease"

    - Thomas

  19. #394
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    Thomas,

    Not hard at all. Like so many, he died young: E G PEASE. Northumberland Fusiliers. Died on 14 November 1916 age 20. Of course, there could have been more than one EG Pease in the regiment, so it might be worth further study.
    Last edited by Mark Cain; 01-12-2016 at 02:32 PM.

  20. #395
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    Hi Mark the Pease you found is a private in the regt. Found here and other sites: http://www.inmemories.com/Cemeteries/warlencourt2.htm

    I find a Lt Pease here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...f=WO+339/18851

    different regiment but transfers were common, still more to research.
    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 01-12-2016 at 06:32 PM.

  21. #396
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    Hi All,
    The Lt Pease of the Will refers to above is a Lt E H Pease listed in the 4th (Territorial) Battalion of the Princess's Own Yorkshire Regiment with the main depot at Thirsk Road in Northallerton, he gained his promotion to Lieutenant on 05 Sept 1914 and is listed as a Temp Captain on 17 June 1915 when transferred to the 24th Provisional Battalion. Plus a further Lt C E Pease in the same (4th Bat Yorkshire Regt) promoted on 17 June 1915. These both are not the original owners for this sword...

    The original owner is 2nd Lt E G Pease who was comissioned on the 23 Dec 1914 listed in the Allied Regiment of Canadian Militia seconded to the 15th (The Kings) Hussars, their recruitment areas were Alberta and Calgary in Canada. He was seconded to the Northumberland Fusiliers (NF) at the start of 1916 and was promoted to Lt on the 1 July 1917. By 1918 he is listed as being in the 1st Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers and having been awarded a Military Cross for bravery. In 1918 he was still serving with the 1st Battalion and was made Acting Captain on 13 Nov 1918. In 1920: he is listed as being with the NF (as his parent unit) but was seconded to the West African Rifles on 05 June 1920 as a Subaltern. On the 01 Dec 1920 he was promoted to Temp Captain, and was still serving as such in Aug 1922. He is still listed as being with the West African Rifles in Aug 1923 but is absent by Aug 1926 so have no further details...

    But all said, the original owner of your sword was awarded a Military Cross (MC); an award usually based on bravery in the field and so an excellent history esp given that it is one of your first swords to a new hobby...!!! So again welcome to the sphere of collecting swords...
    Last edited by Bryan T; 01-15-2016 at 03:06 AM. Reason: spelling

  22. #397
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    Hello all, I've spent hours reading through the forum but can't find the information I need regarding the following question: did some Wilkinson-made swords not have the maker marked on the ricasso? I have recently acquired an 1821 Pattern Royal Artillery sabre - it seems to be of high quality and it has the PROVED-over-crown proof slug and a serial number on the spine (11005) yet a blank (not worn) ricasso. I can supply photos of that helps. Thank you for any assistance!

    Matthew

  23. #398
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    Photos do help. By your description the sword would not be a Wilkinson, other makers did make good quality swords and some copied Wilkinsons by numbering their blades.
    Wilkinson did make trade blades using a different proof disc but did not number these blades.

  24. #399
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    Thank you, Will. This would be my first Wilkinson so I've been crossing my fingers, but I did think it rather unlikely one of theirs would be unmarked. The sabre does seem to my novice's eyes to be of very good quality, though, and it has a lovely ring to it when lightly struck with a deep fuller and crisp etching.

    Here are a few photographs, I can supply full-length ones if necessary.

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  25. #400
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    Hi Matthew,

    Sorry to say it's not a Wilkinson - the serial number would date it to 1861, but yours has a George V cypher (1910-1936). First World War sword, most likely, given the massive expansion of the Artillery arm during that conflict.

    Good luck in your future collecting, I'm sure you'll get your first Wilkinson soon!

    John
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

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