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Thread: New addition to my collection

  1. #1
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    Cool New addition to my collection

    hello all.
    this is nothing but a showoff post
    I wanted to show the latest addtition to my collection
    this a Danish light cavalry M1839 saber
    mine is stamped 1840

    let me know what you think




  2. #2
    I don't collect this type of sword...but it looks like a nice one in good shape and a nice patina. How did you come accross it?


    Regards
    Brian

  3. #3
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    Excellent piece! Danish M1839 is rare and unusual sword. Not so many was produced, because already in 1843 Danmark accepted a new cavalry sword.

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    Looks good Shahar, clearly identified, congratulations on your buy. Ivan, was there a problem with it that they changed the pattern so soon?
    David Gray

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David gray View Post
    Ivan, was there a problem with it that they changed the pattern so soon?
    I don't know really why they changed pattern. But it was common in the middle 1800th, all countries changed patterns and some of them - several times (for example, Austria had M1845, 1850, 1858, 1861 and 1869). Probably cavalry tactic changed drastically and armies tried to find weapon which is suitable for the new tactic.
    The new danish sword -M1843 - was quite successful, it was copied by Sweden in 1854 and by Italy in 1860.

  6. #6
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    I realize they were all trying to come up with the perfect sword I was just wondering what was so bad about this one? I'll have to find an 1843 pattern now and look for changes, see what you've done? can anyone save me looking?
    David Gray

  7. #7
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    maybe I should ask, in what way was the 1843 an improvement?
    David Gray

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David gray View Post
    maybe I should ask, in what way was the 1843 an improvement?
    http://www.auktionsverket.se/R712/stor/5545.jpg
    Here is a picture of danish M1843. I think, the improvment was that halfbasket hilt gave better protection to the hand and blade was suitable for both cutting and trusting. So this sword was one of the first (or may be first) used for both heavy and light cavalry. Austria issued such a sword in 1845, Britain in 1853

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan B. View Post
    I don't know really why they changed pattern. But it was common in the middle 1800th, all countries changed patterns and some of them - several times (for example, Austria had M1845, 1850, 1858, 1861 and 1869). Probably cavalry tactic changed drastically and armies tried to find weapon which is suitable for the new tactic.

    Cavalry tactic didn't change every 5-6 years. Corruption is a more likely answer. Suppliers greased the palms of the Ordnance Department officials to buy the "new and improved" swords.

    Still, good for the collectors. More swords to pick from!
    Last edited by Dmitry Z~G; 06-06-2008 at 02:38 PM.

  10. #10
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    I don't think bribe was the major reason. There was couple of problems with the universal cavalry sword in all countries during the mid-end of 19th century (in Britain, for example, it was 1882/85 sword, in France also 1882). In Austria it was 1850 sword, which had a lot of problems and underwent several improvments until acceptable M1869

  11. #11
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    Perhaps not. Evidently I still measure things in terms of Russian mentality, even after a couple of decades on the other side of the Iron Curtain...
    My money is still on corruption, so to speak!..

  12. #12
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    Wink

    Hi thanks for the kind words

    Brian, I have seen this sword on auction a few years back and since then it has been on my wish list, i finally got it at an antique arms fair in europe a few month ago (another big V on the wish list )

    Ivan, since you mentioned the swedish copy in 1854 and Italy in 1860, i thought I might add the photos from my collection, I added the swedish 1864 as well, I have no idea why Sweden replaced the model (they did so twice again before the end of the 19th)
    The danish change between the 1839 and the 1843 is a massive changed the weight of the sword was reduced, and the length, changing completly the balance of the sword, the 1843 has less curve than the 39 and it does seems they changed the general attitude in regards to cavalry charge, the swedish on the other hand, seems to replace the design rather than the concept, all of the swedish cavalry swords since 1852 handles in a similar fashion, any ideas on this matter ?




  13. #13
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    Thanks for sharing these Shahar, I hope I got this right, these three are Swedish and they followed the Danish change in 43 right?
    David Gray

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    Hi David
    No, the top most is the Italian 1860
    beneath is the swedish 1852, both follow the design of the danish 1843

    the bottom one is the swedish 1864

  15. #15
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    Hi Shahar
    I see we have similar interests, probably I should also put danish M1839 into my wish-list. Actually I already thought about this.
    There were no major differences between swedish M1854 and M1864, just slightly another design of the hilt. The reason for reissuing was that only 2000 sword of M1854 was initially produced, so already in 1863 cavalry required some more freshly made universal sword, and additional 2000 were ordered. By some unknown reason (I could not find any explanation in the literature, may be they were cheaper in production) they were made with different hilt and therefore could be described as another model, M1864.
    The fourth sword in the picture, M1867, had different guard of "austrian" type. All three models had same blade, similar balance and were used in cavalry until 1893, then they were given to mounted artillery and train troops.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Ivan B.; 06-07-2008 at 10:06 AM.

  16. #16
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    Cool

    Ivan, it seems that not only we have the same interest we actually have the same collection

    thanks for the information

    I would really like to see some more pics from your collection
    I have included a pic of some of mine
    you could also see my british 1822LC swords in another post I made in regards to a reeves sword, yesterday


  17. #17
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    Shahar, here is some of mine. European cavalry or mounted artillery, swedish is dominating due to the obvious geografical reasons. Two swedish cavalry swords - M1842 and 1807 - I have also as number one in my wish list, they are really funny and unusual. M1842 has the type of blade which was never used by any other countries.
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  18. #18
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    Shahar, if I may ask, why would a Southern Gentleman collect Northern swords? What's the attraction here?

  19. #19
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    Gawd thats lovely, all that glittering steel, Ivan, which one is the 1842. Shahar, were the Danish the first to use that style of hilt?
    David Gray

  20. #20
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    Dmitry, a good question, the spiritual answer would be that I am probably an incarnation of a european knight or a cavalry man (at least that's what my wife says), the truth is that I love military history, and for some unknow reason the european history of the last 300 years in particular, since items from the last 150 years are more easily obtained, they populate the larger percentage of my collection, I usually interest my self in a battle or a particular war, read some histrorical background, study the course of battle and the strategies used, only then I start collecting swords from that era/battle/war.
    that is why I mostly into enlisted man swords and i prefer unit marked, officers could be stationed in any of the many office positions, and never see any fighting, while the enlisted man, once given a sword was usually send to participate (not always, but usually) therefore, the enlisted man pieces have more chances to be real sword, as in truly participated in a battle and thus became a part of history.

    for example, let's say england would not have initiated the crimean war, the russians would have eventually take over the turkish empire, and since the turks ruled Israel, it would also have eventually become part of the russian empire and all the region history would have been completly different, just think about that and you will see how european military history did had a large effect on our local history.

    another example, do you know that I live 2 miles from the exact place where the battle of TAVOR took place, where in a genious move Napoleon defeted 35,000 arab cavalry with a less than 10,000 man, I can still find bullets in this area, ...

  21. #21
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    David, yes, as Ivan mentioned, the danish were the 1st to use that guard design on thier M1843, it is easy to produce, gives great protection to the hand, the tear drop shape cutout reduce the weight a bit, and altogether you receive a cost effective saber, they did not save on the steel tough, all the danish, swedish and norwegian sabers are made of top quality steel.

  22. #22
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    Thanks Shahar for info and interesting thread, sorry Ivan I missed you saying that.
    David Gray

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