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Thread: The Large Hadron Collider will look at how the universe formed

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    The Large Hadron Collider will look at how the universe formed

    /www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/09/08/lhc.collider/index.html?iref=mpstoryview


    Experts say the collider has the potential to confirm theories about questions that physicists have been working on for decades including the possible existence of extra dimensions. They also hope to find a theoretical particle called the Higgs boson, which has never been detected, but would help explain why matter has mass.

    The collider will recreate the conditions of less than a millionth of a second after the Big Bang, when there was a hot "soup" of tiny particles called quarks and gluons, to look at how the universe evolved, said John Harris, U.S. coordinator for ALICE, a detector specialized to analyze that question.

    Since this is exploratory science, the collider may uncover surprises that contradict prevailing theories, but which are just as interesting, said Joseph Lykken, theoretical physicist at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory.

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    There had BEST be a big upside to this billion dollar project. We could have been rennovating African agraculture with that money...

    M.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    Michael Eversberg , can you play the dry witted supporting hero?

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    This is primarily a European project. The science being explored is important because it may expand the envelope for theoretical physics in the future. It's not the sort of thing where you sit down with an accountant's notebook and determine how much net profit it will generate next quarter.

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    If we are ever going to really solve the energy problem the solution will come out of some pure research project like this.

    Besides high energy particle physics rocks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ty N. View Post
    This is primarily a European project. The science being explored is important because it may expand the envelope for theoretical physics in the future. It's not the sort of thing where you sit down with an accountant's notebook and determine how much net profit it will generate next quarter.
    I'm fully aware of who's behind the project. I'm interested in seeing if it falls apart or creates a nice big pile of research for the academic "elite" to pull apart of the next 30 years. True enough, the "Grid" comes out of it, but there are solvable problems we can do something about *now* that we chalk up to "future tech". If they can find a solution to the energy problem, great, it does pay off. If not...well, that's for academics.

    M.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    Michael Eversberg , can you play the dry witted supporting hero?

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    This project has nothing to do with searching for a solution to our current energy woes. It is about trying to replicate, on a microscopic scale, the conditions that existed near the beginning of the Universe, a sort of window into the Big Bang. These types of projects are not about creating busy work for academic "elites" as you put it, but rather about expanding upon scientific knowledge that will be proliferated to current and future generations, same as the works of Copernicus, Galileo, Da Vinci, Kepler, Newton, Einstein, Hawking, and so many others.

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    I think the "Should we do it?" factor is pretty high. I've jokingly talked about scientists creating miniature black holes through particle acceleration and the like, but the fact that there is even an inkling of scientists saying doing so could be a possibility should be enough to make some people step back and say, "Is this really even necessary?"
    Every time I put on a suit for a wedding or other event, I feel like I'm wearing optimal clothing for an epic fight scene...

    Ronin Outpost

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    If Hawking and others are correct, CERN is going to make time travel possible.


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    and bad movie become reality...

    "Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic." -Unknown

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    Hawking has changed his mind about some of the more far-fetched theories that he once put forth. For instance, he no longer believes that black holes can send material outside of our own Universe.



    .
    Last edited by Ty N.; 09-09-2008 at 05:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ty N. View Post
    This project has nothing to do with searching for a solution to our current energy woes. It is about trying to replicate, on a microscopic scale, the conditions that existed near the beginning of the Universe, a sort of window into the Big Bang. These types of projects are not about creating busy work for academic "elites" as you put it, but rather about expanding upon scientific knowledge that will be proliferated to current and future generations, same as the works of Copernicus, Galileo, Da Vinci, Kepler, Newton, Einstein, Hawking, and so many others.
    The energy woes bit was directed at Dennis, who said a good chance of it would come from pure research projects like this.

    M.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    Michael Eversberg , can you play the dry witted supporting hero?

  12. #12
    I read an article about this yesterday where a scientist against this endeavor said it might begin to create a quasar inside the earth 4 years from now...

    Don't know why he threw out 4 years, but I find it ironic it coincides pretty closely with the whole Mayan calendar (MesoAmerican Long Count Calendar) predicting a worldwide catastrophe... on Dec 12, 2012.

    Don't know if that is a scare tactic opponents are throwing out or what, but interesting how many things you can throw together.
    Last edited by mikejarledge; 09-09-2008 at 08:20 AM.
    Mike J Arledge
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    For X-Files fans, 2012 is also the year when a full-scale alien invasion of Earth is scheduled to begin.

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    Hopefully it doesn't go insane and end up hurting someone. It's not been at full power, and already that magnant pulled stuff apart early on. Last thing I want to hear about is some sort of incident.

    Hah, for artistic flair I'd inscribe "Momento Mori" on the console that turns it on.

    M.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    Michael Eversberg , can you play the dry witted supporting hero?

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    Points...

    *With research like this, there is a strong possibility that things will be discovered that were not theorized. At the very least, it can open new questions.

    *This can help in the development of better understanding how energy works and how to generate/manipulate it.

    *IMHO... The concerns of various people over imaginative disasters shows their lack of knowledge of the science involved.

    *IMHO... I take faith that international cooperation in a science project is better than international conflicts and wars.
    "Swords Are Fun!" - Auld Dawg

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    "Supercollider? I hardly know her!"



    Couldn't resist. :-D
    But hey, at least I still have my hands!

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    I think it's cool. It would be far more interesting if there were actually anything behind the "it might destroy the world" fears. But there isn't. Which relegates it to cool, but boring, science.

    Regarding whther they should do it, well, the thing is already built, so not using it would be a waste. It's not like they can sell it.

    It fires up for the first official run tomorrow. I wonder how long after it will be befor they know if they found the Higgs-Boson, or if physics needs to be re-built from the ground up.

    Oh, and: YouTube: Large Hadron Collider Rap

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    Could create like a mini universe like the one in "Men in Black". We could pretend we are Gods and start little worlds up. But the universe is expanding, just hope they have some thick glass to hold it all in and a big red off button
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  19. #19
    ummm.... where did Switzerland go?
    Mike J Arledge
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    Of all the lost adventurers my peers,--
    How such a one was strong, and such was bold,
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    Lost, lost! one moment knelled the woe of years.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Densmore View Post
    I think it's cool. It would be far more interesting if there were actually anything behind the "it might destroy the world" fears. But there isn't. Which relegates it to cool, but boring, science.
    Never bought into that black hole crap. The scientists told me it wouldn't happen; then again, a certain scientist also thought the atomic bomb would cause an unstoppable chain reaction, and they where wrong about that...hmm...

    In any event, it apparently works, so let's wait for the fireworks of the actual test.

    M.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    Michael Eversberg , can you play the dry witted supporting hero?

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    With some effort, they may actually make some dark matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikejarledge View Post
    ummm.... where did Switzerland go?
    I think the fact that Switzerland is neutral is the reason they built the thing there--it has neither a positive nor negative charge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Justice View Post
    I think the "Should we do it?" factor is pretty high. I've jokingly talked about scientists creating miniature black holes through particle acceleration and the like, but the fact that there is even an inkling of scientists saying doing so could be a possibility should be enough to make some people step back and say, "Is this really even necessary?"
    Hi Aaron;
    I think the same way.

    Idona E.
    [ what's that you say? [/I]

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mikejarledge View Post
    I read an article about this yesterday where a scientist against this endeavor said it might begin to create a quasar inside the earth 4 years from now...

    Don't know why he threw out 4 years, but I find it ironic it coincides pretty closely with the whole Mayan calendar (MesoAmerican Long Count Calendar) predicting a worldwide catastrophe... on Dec 12, 2012.

    Don't know if that is a scare tactic opponents are throwing out or what, but interesting how many things you can throw together.
    Uh, yeah, that whole end of the Mayan calender apocalypse is complete fiction. The only reason the Mayan calender ends is because they haven't included a higher digit yet to be able to count further. So if the end of a calender is reason to worry about an apocalypse, as long as we stick to our own calendar we don't have to worry until 31 december 9999

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Foster View Post
    *IMHO... The concerns of various people over imaginative disasters shows their lack of knowledge of the science involved.
    True, however disasters also occur because scientists don't always have all the knowledge to be able to prevent them as well. When exploring new boundaries, it's always advised to be cautious. The predicted doomsday scenarios generally are wrong, but they do help in making people cautious enough to think things over often enough to see if they can spot any dangers in advance. Going back to the early days of nuclear physics, people didn't really know the dangers of radiation yet. But while we've got no Godzilla stomping around, we now do realize that f.e. radioactive toothpaste wasn't such a good idea.

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