Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Some very interesting saxes!

  1. #1

    Some very interesting saxes!

    Recently I got some very interesting literature on saxes, with examples I had not seen before. Below are some examples.

    Langsax with near complete grip from Lesenwang, Germany:



    Extremely well preserved langsax from Soest, Germany:



    Another nice langsax from Soest with patternwelding:



    The above saxes are part of the "Franken oder Saksen? Untersuchungen an fruhmittelalterlichen Waffen" by Herbert Westphal. The book contains a selection of saxes from the earliest small saxes up to the latest langsaxes in high detail. In the same manner it also describes swords (including ones with fully preserved hilts!) and some very unique decorated winged spearheads.
    Last edited by Jeroen Zuiderwijk; 02-20-2009 at 02:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Saxes from the gravesite of Weingarten Germany.

    Narrow sax with wood/leather hilt:



    Nicely decorated short sax:



    Two very slender langsaxes (though could be due to corrosion of the edges):





    These are from "Das fruhmittelalterlichen Graberfeld bei Weingarten I" by Helmut Roth and Claudia Theune. This book contains many, many finds from the graves, including hundreds of saxes, as well as many swords, spearheads, saxes, fibulae etc. etc. Highly recommended book!
    Last edited by Jeroen Zuiderwijk; 02-19-2009 at 02:46 PM.

  3. #3
    Two nice broadsaxes from the gravesite of Altheim, Germany:





    These are from "Das fruhmittelalterlichen Graberfelt von Altheim, Stadt Blieskastel, Saar-Pfalz-Kreis", by Michael Merkel. It's similar as the catalog from Weingarten. Not quite the abundance of finds, but still a pretty large amount of examples.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    4,181
    I am telling you, Jeroen, you are the Sax-Man!
    <><><> <><><> <><><>
    Do what thy manhood bids thee do,
    from none but self expect applause;
    He noblest lives and noblest dies
    who makes and keeps his self-made laws.

    -Sir Richard Francis Burton

  5. #5
    You have convinced me, I must have this on my bookcase.

    Awesome images, thanks for bringing this to our attention.
    141. Not allowed to use a broadsword to disprove The Pen is Mightier than the sword.
    Some of my blades

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Estancia, New Mexico
    Posts
    821
    I love that first one, and some of the others look amazingly like Scottish dirks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bolton, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    417
    Very, very nice. Thanks for sharing!
    -John

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Altadena, CA, USA
    Posts
    71
    Great information, Thanks for posting that!
    Ben Potter Bladesmith

    It's not that I would trade my lot
    For any other man's,
    Nor that I will be ashamed
    Of my work torn hands-

    For I have chosen the path I tread
    Knowing it would be steep,
    And I will take the joys thereof
    And the consequences reap.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    4,512
    Very nice, especially the two from Soest!

    Any idea what museum they are in?
    Hwere r fuse feorran cwoman
    to am elinge. - Dream of the Rood


    "Ah, Blackadder. Started talking to yourself, I see."
    "Yes...it's the only way I can be assured of intelligent conversation."
    - Lord Melchett and Lord Edmund Blackadder

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hansen View Post
    Very nice, especially the two from Soest!

    Any idea what museum they are in?
    Eh, whoops! I made an error there. They're not from Soest Netherlands, but Soest Germany! They're in the Burghofmuseum. I've corrected this in the first post. Anyone who saved the pictures, please delete them and save the corrected ones, so no misinformation will be spread around

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Elliot Lake
    Posts
    594
    excellent post
    beautiful pictures... and nice detail

    thank you
    Greg

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    NY State
    Posts
    3,366
    Good info. Is there any attempt at defining them as knife/short sword/sword as far as blade length ?
    Ascertained with certainty

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
    Good info. Is there any attempt at defining them as knife/short sword/sword as far as blade length ?
    Not precisely. Longsaxes are frequenly called swords, broadsaxes sometimes, and smaller saxes on a rare occasion (even one with a 15cm blade I've seen called a sword!). I just stick to calling them saxes

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    4,512
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeroen Zuiderwijk View Post
    Not precisely. Longsaxes are frequenly called swords, broadsaxes sometimes, and smaller saxes on a rare occasion (even one with a 15cm blade I've seen called a sword!). I just stick to calling them saxes
    Which the people who used them also did, probably.

    Besides, I guess that any attempt to class a particular sax as either sword or knife would be more complicated than simply blade length. Perhaps mass would be a better way, but probably also too simplistic.
    Hwere r fuse feorran cwoman
    to am elinge. - Dream of the Rood


    "Ah, Blackadder. Started talking to yourself, I see."
    "Yes...it's the only way I can be assured of intelligent conversation."
    - Lord Melchett and Lord Edmund Blackadder

  15. #15

    wow

    Hay is there anyone out there that might have more info and the honey lane type I'm thinking of make my next seax in that style thank

  16. #16

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Luebke View Post
    Hay is there anyone out there that might have more info and the honey lane type I'm thinking of make my next seax in that style . thank you all
    its all about the seax

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Luebke View Post
    Hay is there anyone out there that might have more info and the honey lane type I'm thinking of make my next seax in that style thank
    I'll tell you what I know...
    Produced in Britain during the 10th and early 11th centuries, a few examples also from Germany. The one found at the Honeylane Market, dated by coins found with it to 978-1016AD. The only one I know of (I keep holding out for another) with an intact handle is the so called 'hunting knife of Charlemagne' from Aachen cathedral, which has, I believe, a horn handle with a silver (?) ferrule capping the end, and some very nice patternwelding on the blade. Every other one I've seen has no surviving handle or metal fittings, and a blind tang with no sign of peinning. Judging by the Aachen seax and artistic evidence from period texts, the handles were simple affairs, Just a piece of wood or horn (cattle horn, not antler) with a likely oval cross-section, and a bit on the long side. I have not seen one with any evidence of a guard, or even a hilt plate. I suspect the fancier ones with inlay may have had handles decorated with carving, I have no evidence of this, but with the inlay work and sometimes elaborate sheaths it seems unlikely to me that the handles were not also decorated in some fashion. Blade sizes ranged from barely 4 inches long, up to one example I know of that is sword-sized. The blades were often inlayed with silver and copper alloys, and also often have a pair of grooves cut into the back of the blade. There is at least one example with a bit of filework/jimping on the back of the blade.

    That's about all I have. Here's a few images...
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    141. Not allowed to use a broadsword to disprove The Pen is Mightier than the sword.
    Some of my blades

  18. Here's one more...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    141. Not allowed to use a broadsword to disprove The Pen is Mightier than the sword.
    Some of my blades

  19. #19

    s

    Jeroen,

    Can you tell me where I could order a copy of this book? I haven't been able to find it on a web search.

    Thanks,
    Steven Dick

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Luebke View Post
    Hay is there anyone out there that might have more info and the honey lane type I'm thinking of make my next seax in that style thank
    For accurate descriptions and construction details of several examples I highly recommend getting a copy of "Aspects of Saxo-Norman London: II; Finds and Environmental Evidence". It describes 3 examples, two patternwelded and one inlayed, one of them with ivory hilt and scabbard remains. Here's also one example I'm working on:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by G H Ezell View Post
    I have no evidence of this, but with the inlay work and sometimes elaborate sheaths it seems unlikely to me that the handles were not also decorated in some fashion.
    I don't believe the hilts were generally decorated. The "hunting knife of Charlemagne" (the far right one) is amongst the most complex and high end examples, and it's grip is plain, undecorated. Andother example in the book I mentioned above has an ivory hilt that's also plain. It seems to me that all decorative elements were put in the blade and scabbard, and the grips were purely functional. Mind that the hilts were really long, the one on the hunting knife of Charlemagne is 22cm, and other types of saxes generally have such long hilts as well. The sax I made is much smaller, so I had to guess the hilt length, and made it a bit shorter.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Dick View Post
    Jeroen,

    Can you tell me where I could order a copy of this book? I haven't been able to find it on a web search.

    Thanks,
    Steven Dick
    For either of the books, check http://www.antikmakler.de. They're the best place for any German archeological publications.

  23. #23
    Thank you Jeroen. Interesting website.

  24. #24
    Thanks for posting those! I had some pages copied waaay back from a German book, but I didn't have the actual reference info. I believe they came from the first one you listed there. I definitely need to get copies of these!
    Don Halter
    KragAxe Armoury
    Bryan, TX

  25. #25

    Lightbulb Q about the difference butween seax and war knife

    In my time of enjoyment of the seaxs..
    I'm looking for imfo on Germanic war knife and trying to see if the is a difference butween the seaxs and what is a germanic war knife.
    It seems to me its the period and where it comes from.
    I'm trying to work on different germanic tribes take on our sexy seaxs.
    thanks gang if you could help

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •