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Thread: Terminator Salvation

  1. #1
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    Terminator Salvation

    Saw it last night, DAMN it was good. I have to go see it again to catch some things I missed. Worth seeing in theaters, some BIG scenes if you understand my meaning that are great on the big screen.
    I dunno. Iron is sort-of the Paris Hilton of metals, and carbon, nickel, chromium silicon, etc. are a bunch of good looking guys she just met at a party. - Al Massey

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    hmm...

    Great movie, except for the ending...they could have done almost anything else and it would have been less predictable and more "believable" (I know, we're talking a full Suspension-of-Disbelief SciFi movie, but still). Thought the last 3-5 minutes almost ruined all the good movie-ness (?) of the rest.

  3. #3
    Oh man, seriously? Seriously? I thought it was one of the biggest turds to hit the screen in ages! The writing was simply atrocious, the plot ridiculous and that ending.. puh-lease! Keep in mind, this is from someone who thought that T3 was actually an ok movie. I'm now even more pissed that they've canceled the Sara Connor Chronicles - any one episode of that show was better than this waste of celluloid.
    -Ash

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley Bishop View Post
    Oh man, seriously? Seriously? I thought it was one of the biggest turds to hit the screen in ages! The writing was simply atrocious, the plot ridiculous and that ending.. puh-lease! Keep in mind, this is from someone who thought that T3 was actually an ok movie. I'm now even more pissed that they've canceled the Sara Connor Chronicles - any one episode of that show was better than this waste of celluloid.
    Agreed, well the first part anyway. Poorly written, directed, and frankly acted.

    Ripped of almost every action movie under the sun and so much of it made no sense and was plain stupid.

    What the hell was Bale playin at in this film?! he talks in one tone of voice and just changes the volume.

    gah, so many things wrong with it. It was like watching a Michael Bay film, but at least with a michael bay film you go in knowin its a michael bay film.

    Could we really expect more from the man who brought us Charlies Angels though?

    The collective groan of pain from the audience after Conner said 'I'll be back' just about sums up this movie.

    Anyway, If you enjoyed it then i'm glad you had a good time. Personally, I felt cheated by it.
    'There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.' - Commander William Adama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cliff View Post
    What the hell was Bale playin at in this film?! he talks in one tone of voice and just changes the volume.
    That's his American accent!

    He does the same thing in the Batman movies, but it's even more humorous in American Psycho. For one liners and short sentences, it's not so bad. But when he goes into longer lines and monologues, his accent changes into a strange UK/US mix with a little bit of exaggerated California surfer dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent McDonald View Post
    That's his American accent!

    He does the same thing in the Batman movies, but it's even more humorous in American Psycho. For one liners and short sentences, it's not so bad. But when he goes into longer lines and monologues, his accent changes into a strange UK/US mix with a little bit of exaggerated California surfer dude.
    not the accent I have a problem with, it was the complete lack of emotion he potrayed with his performance.

    I like him in the 2 batman movies, and American Psycho is one of my favourite films. He's a talented guy, but he missed the mark with this one.
    'There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.' - Commander William Adama.

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    Bale was good in alot of things. I liked that movie 3;10 to Yuma, the Batmans and Psyco too. I made the mistake of reading the two Terminator books that came out before this Terminator 4, pretty sorry reading, and was really looking forward to a great film to make up for it. I liked Terminator 3 and the actor that played John Connor, not at first but after seeing it again and again he grew on me, now my favorite. This new one was exactly like the book except the ending, which really bit. Bale did a lousy job IMO on this one. I want to see it again and maybe it will grow on me a taste.
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  8. #8
    I feel like it wasn't Bale's fault at all. Certain times he spoke (such as "Here" at the helicopter after the explosion) seemed like it needed more background sound effects. Like: Here, Christian, there are loud winds from the blast and lots of dust and a huge bomb went off... so strain your voice and force it. - Yet, most of that was absent and all you get is Bale comically yelling in an otherwise quiet environment. I think McG let him down there. And several other times. It's like he knew what to do but the people editing his performance didn't.

    And he didn't really have that much to go on. John Connor has been portrayed by 4 people before him and they all gave very different impressions of a single character. By this point I feel like he played him accurately as the hardened military leader. Yet, I wish he had more screen time to help connect us to the classic T2 badboy. The Guns N' Roses song helped. But he wasn't given very much to work with. He did well considering.

    You guys should check out Harsh Times regarding Bale's American accents. I think he's amazing in it.

    On the topic of T4, however, I probably shouldn't make too many connections to T2. There are convincing theories out there that in this Terminator 4 film T2 has never happened. And I'm kind of agreeing with them. Terminator 1 has obviously happened, as Connor knows what he needs to do in order to make sure what he's already done gets done... (which is a really big flaw with time travel stuff - I highly DOUBT if time travel worked a past could ever be "undone"). Yet, T2 hasn't happened yet. Which begs the question - will it ever happen in this timeline? Because there have already been vast departures from the Pre-T1 future wars timeline.

    Here's how I think it goes:

    T1 - T4 - T2 (if T2 ever happens in this timeline and ignoring T3).
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    Well, I really liked the original. The others were ok, not real winners in my book, but OK. Ill wait till this one comes out on DVD at NetFlix or on the TV.
    "Do not suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretences of politeness, delicacy or decency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arik Estus View Post
    Well, I really liked the original. The others were ok, not real winners in my book, but OK. Ill wait till this one comes out on DVD at NetFlix or on the TV.
    just stick to T2 tbh, the remastered hi-def version looks pretty damn good especially good in surround sound
    'There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.' - Commander William Adama.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Cliff View Post
    just stick to T2 tbh, the remastered hi-def version looks pretty damn good especially good in surround sound
    It better. I bought the original blu ray version and it might have looked even WORSE than the DVD I had of it.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Arthur View Post
    On the topic of T4, however, I probably shouldn't make too many connections to T2. There are convincing theories out there that in this Terminator 4 film T2 has never happened. And I'm kind of agreeing with them. Terminator 1 has obviously happened, as Connor knows what he needs to do in order to make sure what he's already done gets done... (which is a really big flaw with time travel stuff - I highly DOUBT if time travel worked a past could ever be "undone"). Yet, T2 hasn't happened yet. Which begs the question - will it ever happen in this timeline? Because there have already been vast departures from the Pre-T1 future wars timeline.

    Here's how I think it goes:

    T1 - T4 - T2 (if T2 ever happens in this timeline and ignoring T3).

    The problem with the fanbase messing with movie timelines (there's Matrix guys who say Neo is still alive, and him flying away at the end of the first film is actually after the third film...) is that they move around facts to fit their own predisposition. If Salvation is a direct sequel to T3 like it's supposed to be, T2 did in fact happen because John Connor mentions it in the opening of T3. You can't just ignore T3 as part of the timeline because it was the part that brought us Judgment Day. Judgment Day has heavily delayed thanks to T2, therefore Kyle Reese is now born before Judgment Day, not after like in T1. If it went from T1 to T4, then Kyle would not have been around before the war started, and likely he might have been killed in the apocalypse like most humans were... but even if he were killed, one would wonder if that would have any effect on John Connor's present state. The machines think it will, but there's another way to look at it.

    The problem is time travel basically assumes an infinity of simultaneously occurring alternate universes. The simple act of traveling in time at all screws up future events, regardless of what impact is made. The future that plays out will not be the same, and expecting it to repeat itself is not likely given even the exact same scenarios. One can assume reasonably close outcomes, but never the same outcome.

    In T1, John Conner sends Kyle back simply because he's the best soldier they have. Kyle becomes John's father. John in T2 is not the same John that originally sent Kyle back, but is raised in the expectation of being the same John Connor, and in T4 he lives up to it. Now, he has the responsibility of knowing who his father is. (this is without me even seeing the movie actually). But, if Kyle is killed, does that mean John ceases to exist? Because THIS Kyle Reese is not the same Kyle that was his father in T1, he was born under far different circumstances, in far better conditions...

    My lingering question is, if nothing dead can travel in time, that the aura projected by living creatures allows for time travel as presented in T1, and the T-800 gets through because of his living tissue exterior, how did the T-1000 and Terminatrix both get sent through time?
    Last edited by Aaron Justice; 06-14-2009 at 08:29 AM.
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  13. #13
    Well I'm ignoring T3 for good reason.

    I just don't think this film knows what to do with its outlook on time travel. The way they have it set up, Connor obviously believes in a linear, loop-like timeline where people just fade away if their past is screwed up. But the way I think time travel would work most believably (if it were even possible) is that, each jump in time instantly spawns another split universe in which the events are obviously different from the previous one (which keeps on progressing, by the way). As soon as Reese was sent back the first time, the new past branches off of the old and creates a new future because of it. I highly highly doubt, as Connor believes, that if he does not send Reese back again he will simply disappear. If he does believe this, this is why the movie makes little sense. If Connor truly believes that "resetting" past events will vastly change the future in his current universe than why is he even bothering? Following his logic, Reese will be sent back, the past that's already happened will happen again, leading up to the same present he's currently in, having to fight the same battle. Connor's beliefs should probably make him think "oh wait, I'm stuck in a loop". It's either one or the other. Either it's a loop or there are multiple timelines. It can't work both ways, IE: He sends Reese back, the present is maintained and he still progresses in that timeline. It wouldn't work like that at all in his singular vision of the universe, as where did Reese get sent to? It surely wasn't Connor's current past, as events will always play out slightly differently, as you said. This is why I fully believe that sending Reese back would create an alternate timeline/universe which will lead up to roughly the same thing Connor is currently experiencing, yet his own timeline will continue - with OR without Reese. The simple fact is that Reese has already been sent back. Whether it was in a future or not, it happened in this universe's past. So the way I see it, it makes no difference whether this Reese lives or not. Because as you said, this Reese ain't Connor's father. Not this Connor anyway. Getting back to the whole machines killing Reese thing... you'll know what I mean once you see the movie. You'd THINK the machines would want to kill Reese, yet there was some bad plot design somewhere in there... You'll see.

    You make good points about T2 occurring in this timeline but I think there are others that suggest it doesn't. I've read quite a few convincing theories on it so I might not cover everything, but Connor relies on tapes throughout T4 of his mother explaining everything about his role in the future wars and the machines and stuff. He listens to these at various points in the film to try to detect any bits of information Sarah might hint at regarding Marcus. Yet there's nothing in her tapes about a cyborg like him at all. That's a different topic but the main point is... why is he listening to these tapes? If this John had experienced the events of T2, wouldn't he have first-hand knowledge of the terminators? If he met his mother at the nut house and had the mother & son reunion of T2 wouldn't he be relying on her direct dialogue to him? And let's not forget when these tapes were made. What is Sarah doing at the end of T1 before she drives off into the storm? Recording tapes for John. Connor also acts a bit like his mother did in T2, in T4. You know, hating machines, they're all evil etc. etc. It seems like a vast departure from the John we know in T2. And Connor doesn't exactly trust Marcus at all, even after he saves his life. This feels like a pre-T2 John trained by his post T1 mother. Though, a lot happened since the future wars and he has plenty of reason not to trust the machines (after all, HE reprogrammed the original T800). And then there's the Arnold cameo. It's hard to say what John's reaction was to this, as it can be interpreted as familiarity, surprise, fear, hatred, or all of the above. His first reaction was to blow the thing away. Now... evidence for and against my theory: If John knows he has to reprogram this thing and send it back (as realized in T2) then not destroying it would almost be as important as Reese surviving in his mind. Yet.... let's not ignore T3 for a moment. I believe (been a while since I've seen that crap) the T850 told John that he killed(kills) him. So even though it was a different model, it's still the face of Arnold. And as far as John knows (if T3 has happened) this is how he dies. But then again, that can't really happen yet considering he hasn't sent Reese back. A lot of it can swing both ways. That's no proof, but I think it's strong evidence that they intended this to be the pre-T2 future wars. I'm still debating it but I wouldn't dismiss the idea yet. T4 kind of throws a lot at us that screws with each theory, mixing a little bit of both.

    It just seems odd to me that here we are... trying to send Reese back to spark T1, knowing full-well that he dies, go through the motions anyway because we need John... then John knows he's also gotta send a reprogrammed T800 back to combat the T1000... knowing that what they do in T2 only delays skynet (which, by the way, I think Marcus's presence is evidence to suggest that Cyberdyne's endoskeleton research wasn't destroyed like in T2), it still succeeds in T3, which John knows he must also send a T850 back for.... yawn.

    I shouldn't try to make sense of something that has very little, but it's a good talk. Sorry for the sloppiness, I've been discussing this quite a bit on other boards.
    Last edited by David Arthur; 06-14-2009 at 11:15 AM.
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    There's no way the writers thought this deeply about it

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Justice View Post
    In T1, John Conner sends Kyle back simply because he's the best soldier they have. Kyle becomes John's father. John in T2 is not the same John that originally sent Kyle back, but is raised in the expectation of being the same John Connor, and in T4 he lives up to it.
    That's what I think, too.

    Some people seem to have trouble with the paradox of John Connor essentially creating his own existence by sending Kyle Reese back in time. But I would suggest that the legendary John Connor spoken of in T1 was not fathered by Kyle Reese, but some other nameless guy.

    When Kyle Reese arrived, it created a split timeline, and the events in this new future would never be exactly the same. Therefore, in this new timeline, even if the future Kyle Reese gets killed before he can go back in time, it wouldn't change John Connor's current existence.

    This whole split timeline/dimension theory kinda wrecks the premise of the movie though. Why would the robots send assassins to the past, only to create an alternate future that they themselves could never experience?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent McDonald View Post

    When Kyle Reese arrived, it created a split timeline, and the events in this new future would never be exactly the same. Therefore, in this new timeline, even if the future Kyle Reese gets killed before he can go back in time, it wouldn't change John Connor's current existence.

    This whole split timeline/dimension theory kinda wrecks the premise of the movie though. Why would the robots send assassins to the past, only to create an alternate future that they themselves could never experience?

    Exactly. That's what I've been wondering this whole time too. And I didn't want to spoil too much but on the topic of the machines being kind of inept...


    if they felt the need to kill Reese why did they hold him in a cell waiting to be rescued? They could have explained the jacket better too. Maybe Reese switches jackets with someone in the resistance faction and they take the dude wearing Reese's jacket instead and kill him. Doesn't make the machines look quite as stupid and gives Reese a better reason to earn the red armband. The machines in this movie seem really dumb. The endoskeletons are brutal and relentless and all, but Skynet was an idiot. That whole Helena Bonham Carter representation Skynet took just sucked the cold, dead feeling out of them that we got from the previous films. I never once got the impression from the old Terminator movies that the machines would let you know what their evil plan was just to humor them. There should be no interaction between Skynet and the humans except when it comes to killing them, and any method that helps them do that. Even if Marcus was part machine, that even reinforces the question of why they needed to speak to him like that in the first place. That was the lamest part...
    Last edited by David Arthur; 06-14-2009 at 04:25 PM.
    Michael Mann is the greatest director to ever walk the Earth.

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