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Thread: Question conc. Jian!?

  1. #1

    Question conc. Jian!?

    Hello there,
    Is there anybody who would be able to tell something about that Jian? Please check the pictures. Thank you.
    Best, Raffael
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Looks fake, lacks a hardened edge layer, that is non SanMai...based on the photos of course.

    If you want real antiques call Scott Rodell at Seven Stars Trading, I bought 3 jian and 2 dao from him and they are genuine and very nicely made/balanced.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    What is the provenance of this piece?

    Josh
    The smith also sitteth by the anvil,
    And fighteth with the heat of the furnace,
    And the noise of the hammer and the anvil is ever in his ears,
    And his eyes look still upon the pattern of the thing that he maketh.
    He setteth his mind to finish his work,
    And waiteth to polish it perfectly.

  4. #4
    Angus Trim is offline Moderator
    Sword Fabricator
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    Its impossible to tell from the photos whether its a real antique or not......

    I'd have to agree about Scott Rodell, decent antiques, and reasonable prices all things considered.........
    For Good or Ill......

    What Comes Around Goes Around.....
    and

    You Reap What You Sow...

  5. #5
    Thanks for your interesting replies. The provenance is www.egun.de and the seller is falkenauge! See http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=1354115
    Best to you all, Raffael

  6. #6
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    I'd say it's a fake. I ran the longest section of text from that auction thru Babel fish and it doesn't make any claims about the age or authenticity of the sword.
    It looks like a cheap and (in my opinion) gaudy decorative sword. For the price, I seriously doubt it's a functional blade. Be very cautious if considering purchasing it.

    If you are interested in antiques then Scott Rodell is definately the man to speak to. He's very helpful but you might have a long wait for an antique jian. When I spoke to him about selling mine he cautioned that it might be very difficult to replace it because they've become so scarce. Scott also sells modern reproduction jians. They are more costly than this one but he's tested them and is satisfied as to their function for form and cutting practice.
    Last edited by Chris Lampe; 05-26-2007 at 07:43 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by B.Ko View Post
    Looks fake
    Yeppirs. It is NOT a real sword. That much is apparent from the pics. Maybe a souvenir sword?

    , lacks a hardened edge layer, that is non SanMai...based on the photos of course.
    Those are good indicators of a possible antique, but not all antiques were made that way and some of the modern makers can emulate these techniques. Also, the composite layers and/or the differential hardening may be there, but may not be visible depending upon the sword finish, the lighting, and other variables like quality of image.

    An antique is best examined in person.

    If you want real antiques call Scott Rodell at Seven Stars Trading, I bought 3 jian and 2 dao from him and they are genuine and very nicely made/balanced.
    I could not agree more. Scott Rodell and Philip Tom have excellent and well-deserved reputations.
    Euthenist, Exorcist, Utilitarianist

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lampe View Post
    I'd say it's a fake. I ran the longest section of text from that auction thru Babel fish and it doesn't make any claims about the age or authenticity of the sword.
    It looks like a cheap and (in my opinion) gaudy decorative sword. For the price, I seriously doubt it's a functional blade. Be very cautious if considering purchasing it.

    If you are interested in antiques then Scott Rodell is definately the man to speak to. He's very helpful but you might have a long wait for an antique jian. When I spoke to him about selling mine he cautioned that it might be very difficult to replace it because they've become so scarce. Scott also sells modern reproduction jians. They are more costly than this one but he's tested them and is satisfied as to their function for form and cutting practice.
    FYI, the Babelfish translation:

    Beautiful large sword from China, fold blade, discharge gutters, engravings, very sharply. Many photos as pdf file or particulars jpegs available, please request! The blade is polished and in good condition to clearly recognize the fold structure. On both sides of the blade discharge gutters pull themselves. In the depth that reciprocally 8 Chinese characters are engraved. The blade is rat sharp. The grasp is black painted from wood. Very beautifully the fine bronze ornaments at the pass sheet and Griffknauf, which always represent the same motive for kite. Blade length 86cm, overall length: 115,5,0cm. blade width: down to 5 cm, above in the broadest place 2,8cm. The sheath is likewise from black painted wood with bronze fittings of the recurring motive for kite. Two stretcher eyes. Article is in good condition. Sales uses from private without guarantee and cancelling. The buyer appears in agreement with delivery of its requirement with it. Many photos on request. Dispatch internationally, to Germany and Austria inclusive packing 12.00 euro, other countries according to postage. Ask for age proof, except "Alt" customers or ID members.
    Euthenist, Exorcist, Utilitarianist

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffael T. View Post
    Thanks for your interesting replies. The provenance is www.egun.de and the seller is falkenauge! See http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=1354115
    Best to you all, Raffael
    Hello Raffael,

    In general, the more information you provide, the more likely you will get an informed response.
    Euthenist, Exorcist, Utilitarianist

  10. #10
    The thickness of the blade alone even without the telltale modern pattern weld would tell you that this sword was never meant to be used. It is a heavy bar of iron only slightly shaped like a sword. Look at the angle of the diamond shape. There is a tremendous amount of steel in there.
    Josh

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    The blade is obviously forged from a single piece of folded iron and steel. The amount of layers appear low. Etched to make the pattern really stand out. This is a common thing amongst producers of fake antiques. (I am assuming this piece was represented as an antique..).

    I like the fittings though. Ming dynasty style? No?

    This is pretty nice decoration though.. Very nice..

    Best regards, Kenneth A.H.
    I study at:
    Long Quan Zheng Wu Knife & Sword Forge.
    I work at:
    Zheng Wu Knife & Sword Company.
    Qing Zhong Knife & Sword Company.
    Exclusive Porcelain.

  12. #12
    I am not familiar with too many Ming style fittings, but these look a bit on the fantasy side to me. The guard is possible, but the rest looks wrong for any period. Ming style scabbards had a different suspension system, and the piece at the scabbard throat looks very strange. The pommel is also not in the lobed and pierced style I associate with Ming pieces.
    Josh

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